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Vincent
November 7, 2008, 11:03am Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
The computer can predict which diamond will be hit, and which third of the diamond (top, middle or bottom) will be hit.

I mean rly what world do you live in? I highly doubt that any roulette computer can predict this. Since the ball does not drop at a constant speed.

Quoted Text
The ball is going to hit the rotor when the ball reaches a certain speed. Does it really happen like that? No. You need to take into account mild drop zones, and ball-diamond interaction.

Steve...
First you claim that you can predict, which diamond it can hit, then you say that ball don't drop in to rotor at the same speed. These claims are against eachother.

What average hit ratio can i expect on the computer?
When will the demonstration video be done? What is status on the huxley?

Feel free to ban me if i'm a monkey on your back
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Roulette physics system Roulette computer devices
Steve
November 7, 2008, 11:28am Report to Moderator

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Vincent,

You said:

Quoted Text
I mean rly what world do you live in? I highly doubt that any roulette computer can predict this. Since the ball does not drop at a constant speed.


I live on Earth. You dont have the computer so it is easy to criticize what you dont know. If I thought for a second that Lanky and Iwonder couldnt verify this, I wouldnt include it in the list of claims for them to investigate. My players know it is true, and anyone that actually tests the computer will know. It may not be correct 100% of the time because there are other factors such as slight timing errors, ball track deformations etc, but it is correct about 90% of the time with regards to which diamond will be hit, and which part of the diamond will be hit. Accuracy to within 1/3rd of a diamond may not be possible with all wheels, but even on the most modern wheels it is correct to within 1 diamond on clearly the majority of occasions.

Skeptical? How about we let people that actually have the computer decide if it's true.

You said:

Quoted Text
First you claim that you can predict, which diamond it can hit, then you say that ball don't drop in to rotor at the same speed. These claims are against eachother.


Vincent you obviously dont understand how the computer works, or the physics of the wheel. True the ball does not fall at the same speed every time. Sometimes it will miss all diamonds, sometimes clip a horizontal diamond, sometimes a vertical diamond, and different parts of the diamonds can be hit with different effects. So correct the ball doesnt hit the rotor at the same speed every time.

My statement was "Mark's computers and forester's IQE6 all assume the ball is going to hit the rotor when the ball reaches a certain speed. Does it really happen like that? No. You need to take into account mild drop zones, and ball-diamond interaction.". I'll elaborate. Mark's and Forester's computer assume that when the ball is CALCULATED to reach a certain speed (not necessarily when it actually reaches that speed), let's say at point A on the wheel, that the ball is going to strike the rotor at that point. Is that how it really happens? NO. That was my point. My computers have the capability to know not only which diamond will be hit, but if the ball will miss a diamond, hit a horizontal diamond, hit a vertical diamond, and if hitting a vertical diamond, it can determine which part of the diamond will be hit within a reasonable degree of accuracy. How accurately? It varies between wheels, but usually between 1/3rd of the diamond on older wheels, to 1 diamond on the most modern wheel. Why only 1 diamond on modern wheels? Because the diamonds are usually smaller (often 1/3rd of the size) and it's a smaller area to target.

Additionally, both Mark's and Forester's computers assume the wheel rotor is going the same speed when doing a scatter analysis. None of Forester's computer really does a scatter analysis though - it is more like you create the chart on a piece of paper then determine the offset to tune. But that "manual analysis" is still assuming the wheel is the same speed every time. I am not referring to rotor strike point in this case, I am referring to the ball behavior and bounce and the differences between different wheel speed. Did you know on some wheels even a 500MS wheel speed difference can mean the ball bounces an extra 12 or so pockets? As for Mark's computer, his earlier computer has in-built scatter analysis (his recent ones dont), but it does the same thing wrong as forester's "manual analysis" - it assumes the ball bounces the same way each time. Sure such a basic scatter chart is good enough for some wheels, but on other wheels accuracy is seriously degraded.This is all assuming the rotor strike point is correctly predicted, in marks case it is way off for many reasons. If you were interested in playing for a living, I know I'd prefer to use technology that did the job right. Both of their computers have major problems, but I'm not interested in giving them full details of the problems and how to overcome them. Truth is neither Forester or Mark have the vaguest idea of how sophisticated some of my technology is, and I don't just mean my standard computer or even the hybrid for that matter. But specifically comparing my most basic computer to their most sophisticated computers, they are worlds apart. Where their computers get random results, as Barnett found with Forester's computer, my basic computer can achieve hit rates of even 1 in 15. I cant help but get the feeling that mark and forester are following this thread closely, and I'm sure they are, wondering how on earth my claims could be true - especially forester thinks he knows everything, and that if he cant do it then no-one can. He has changed his mind about so much as he continued to develop his computers. At least mark uses polynomials but his use of them is completely wrong. According to forester, everything he does and everything he developed is the "best" like it is a competition about having the biggest penis. At least it is the best, and mine is the worst, until he changes his computers to more closely resemble mine.

My claims are not against each other. You just didnt understand. Feel free to be a monkey on my back - I have bananas for you.

You said:

Quoted Text
What average hit ratio can i expect on the computer?
When will the demonstration video be done? What is status on the huxley?


Hit rates will vary from 1 in 10 to 1 in 25 depending on the wheel and settings.

I'm waiting to hear back from Huxley regarding the mk7 wheel.

Vincent I am not going to ban you for asking questions or asking me to address specific points. If I banned people for something like that, I'd be banning quite a few people. Just because I moderate doesnt mean I'll abuse it.
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Wally Gator
November 7, 2008, 11:34pm Report to Moderator
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Steve,

Thanks for all the information, and what appear to be very frank and honest answers.  To me, what you do is provide education.  It's no different than any other walk of life, really.  We commonly pay (very well, I might add) for a good, and sometimes not so good, education.  I have 2 kids in college and another starting next year and it's costing me $100's of thousands of dollars.  And, for what?  So they can say they went to x university.  No question the universities have done a phenomenal job at marketing their product.

That all said, perhaps I may be able to use one of your systems to recoop some of my cash going to these universities.  I am most interested in a consistent system that will allow me to make a significant income and be able to "fly below the radar".

I am eager to hear the results of all this testing ....

Gator
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Vincent
November 10, 2008, 7:11am Report to Moderator
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Steve it will be interesting to see, to see if the bear, is a bear and not a duck. Much of your text is just convincing text.
Anyway have a good day.
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Steve
November 10, 2008, 7:37am Report to Moderator

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Vincent, convincing text is convincing text because it is the TRUTH.
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Steve
November 10, 2008, 7:50am Report to Moderator

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Wally, with either the system or the computers, they are just tools - nothing more. They are effective only in the hands of someone that knows how to use them. To people that dont know any better, I MUST be some kind of scammer because they believe roulette is not beatable, and they think if it works I wouldnt be selling it. But to those that DO know better, even just part of what I teach is well known to be effective and it's really no big deal. Indeed a large part of what I offer is plain knowledge/education, which is still a tool.

After years of false accusations of being dishonest from competitors and people that have no idea what they're talking about, I cant be anything but 'frank' with my responses. I'm extremely tired of ignorant people. There are many examples of ignorance I can use but one is people believe if the system really worked, I would just use it myself and never sell it, so I MUST be a scammer. The truth is very simple - I have much better technology than the system and have no need for the system anymore. But that doesn't mean I'll let it sit unused. Of course I'll sell it for additional revenue.
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Steve
November 10, 2008, 8:22am Report to Moderator

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Wally, this is a little off-track but anyway: my thoughts on the education system are varied. Of course you need to give your kids the widest range of options possible, which includes the most "recognized" universities etc. My two are too young for school, and while I intend to do the same for them (so they have more available options), my feelings about the entire "education system" are mixed. School teaches them invaluable skills ranging from basic social skills to knowledge for life. A good education is knowledge that is used throughout life - you can never get enough knowledge. But I feel the "education system" is not all about knowledge - there is too much focus on getting qualifications to get a job, then you spend 50 or so years of your life working 5 days a week, 9am-5pm, too tired to enjoy life at 6pm when you return from work through peak hour traffic, plus the tax man steals half of what you earn to do things like fight wars you dont agree with, all for a bit of time on the weekend with your family. To me that sounds crazy and unacceptable, but everyone is different. To me the "education system" is like a railroad to "subtle slavery". I refuse to believe "thats just how it is" as most people tend to believe - life is EXACTLY we make of it. Nature already gave us everything we need - we as a species seem to have changed our environment to suit us, rather than fit in with nature. In doing so we are destroying the planet and making our own lives hell. I dont mean we all should run around with spears chasing rabbits - i mean we need a blend of technology and nature. We're getting there, but perhaps too slowly. Absolutely unequivocally BALANCE always, always occurs. The balance that will eventually occur, if we dont balance it ourselves, is our planet will become far less hospitable, whic may very well cause deaths of millions, which would actually benefit earth the way people treat it - that is the balance. Again I don't mean I wont send my kids to the best school possible. Just that I want to make them aware of all options.

After high school I did one month of applied physics at RMIT, because I wanted to learn physics. I quit for two reasons - firstly what I wanted to learn was not being taught by "modern physics" (I was after new knowledge), and secondly I didnt want a "career", I wanted a life. For some people, career is life, and acknowledged that everyone is different. Anyway just some of my idle thoughts..

My wife said it brilliantly once. We were walking in a park and looking at ducks. I said to my wife "imagine being a duck. All you'd do is eat, sleep, crap and ****. ". In retrospect, it was a stupid comment. My wife replied, "that's pretty much what we do, except we're the ones stupid enough to work in between..."
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lanky
November 10, 2008, 10:12am Report to Moderator
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This is a copy oth Email I have just sent toe Steve & Iwonder.

Hi Steve & Iwonder & Forums.

I am sorry but I have just come back from the Drs. and I regret that I will have to withdraw from the Challenge completely as of Now.

I have 2 more appointments on the 17th & the 18th October to go to and another 3 Specialists to see before Christmas.

I have sent the package back to You Steve by Registered post the Number is *******.

I have not looked at the CDS so I cannot comment any further on the matter.

I am sorry if I have let anyone down but I am sure You can Respect My discission to do this as My health comes first.

Yours Faithfully.

Lanky.
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Steve
November 10, 2008, 10:32am Report to Moderator

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The following was sent to Lanky and Iwonder:

Hi Lanky, no problem at all. Sincerely sorry to hear about your health and hope all works out ok.

Iwonder, we are still ok to proceed with you if you are happy to do so.

Either way, can either of you suggest someone else that may be suitable? They need to be "normal" people, well known and trusted on forums (essential), trustworthy, and have at least moderate knowledge of roulette. I'll email Victor from VLS to see if he's interested but any suggestions are appreciated.

Best Regards,

Steve | Management
Roulette Wheel Analysis Group
ACN 090 739 754
Skype: rouletteanalysis
Ph. +61 3 9727 2211 (Australia, +10 GMT, 9am-5pm)
Calls from the public must be on Thursdays. Calls from players can be other days, but must be scheduled via email to guarantee availability of consultants.

Roulette system (no electronics):
http://www.genuinewinner.com
Looking for proof of effectiveness? See http://www.genuinewinner.com/proof.html

Electronic cheating devices:
http://www.roulettecomputers.com
http://www.hybridroulettecomputer.com

Our Energy Research / Non-profit Organization:
http://www.universalsymbiosis.org
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Steve
November 10, 2008, 10:36am Report to Moderator

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If anyone is interested in replacing Lanky, please email me (nospam AT genuinewinner.com).

The ideal candidate:

1. Well known and trusted on forums (no point in being someone whois not well known)
2. Adequate time and will to test things, and visit me in person (I'll pay expenses etc). The person needs to be 100% willing.
3. Trustworthy - I'm going to teach you secrets which will help validate my claims, and you need to keep them to yourself.
4. At least moderate knowledge of roulette - you should be at least familiar the basics of typical advantage techniques.
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Steve
November 10, 2008, 12:35pm Report to Moderator

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For those who just found this thread or received the email about the challenge, Lanky and Iwonder are well known on various forums, not just this forum. They are best known on VLS roulette forum.
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Wally Gator
November 12, 2008, 3:15am Report to Moderator
Still in Diapers
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Steve,

Your wife is a brilliant woman !!!  Right on point.  What's obvious to some is shunned by most.

As for school, having been to graduate and post-graduate school more than once, I now live by the following observation by one of America's foremost business philosophers, Jim Rohn:

"Formal education will make you a living, self-education can make you a fortune".

I made a living for too many years.  While I no longer 'work for the man' I am still searching for that self-education to make a fortune.

I think for most playing roulette on a consistent basis to earn a living would be viewed as something that would need to be held almost as a 'secret' in their life.  Do you find that to be the case with your players?

I ask because, living about an hour or so from 2 very large land based casinos in the US, I would think anyone would like to be able to do that, but could never tell their family and friends as they would be ridiculed.  Although, I must say, it's very appealing.  With that in mind, what is the training process in your system-based program?  How long does it take to get familiar enough so that you begin making money on a consistent basis?  Do you have players who literally learn the materials, record spins, talk to you and begin making money right away and continue to do so for prolonged periods of time .... say years?  How long has the longest player been consistently making money with you and your system? (I am referring to non-computer systems ... I can't use the computer in the US)
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Steve
November 12, 2008, 8:03am Report to Moderator

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Wally, great quote from Jim Rohn - very true. When I had a full head of hair, I worked "for the man" for about 1 year before realizing it wasn't the way to do things. It wasnt a lifestyle - it was more like slavery.

I've been involved in countless business ventures - everything from gemstone dealing, to offshore investments, advertising and of course gaming-based enterprises. I still operate numerous companies in different markets - i do a lot more than roulette. The "easiest" way I've ever found to make money is using the bank's money to acquire assets. For example, taking a loan based on a good credit rating to buy something like real estate. A good property will double in value over about 10 years. You can buy property below it's value too. You can focus on property that will benefit from relatively inexpensive modifications that increase value. You pay an interest-only loan, and by the time you sell the property (if you sell it), you end up paying about half price for a property. But you need money and good credot rating before doing that in the first place, and there is a lot of paperwork that go with it, plus not to mention you pay ridiculous things like stamp duty and government taxes.. and you thought you already paid your tax.

The "best" overall way I've ever found to earn money is roulette computers, without a doubt. You get to screw over casinos (the man himself), and dont pay a cent tax (in most cases).

As for the system, it's good but has limitations. Not all players succeed with it, for varied reasons. The most common reason is the player doesnt understand it well enough. In such a case, they may not know which of the techniques are suitable for their specific wheels, and how to adapt the system to specific wheels. But they only need to get adequate support from me to understand all this. Most players dont bother speaking to me and like to go their own way, which is not the best thing to do. There are so many different situations players are in. Some have literally won over $1m, some havent won a dime. The players that do best travel to jurisdictions/casinos where conditions are best. That can mean the difference between no profit, of literally $50,000+ per week. So the methods are more for the serious player, not the player that wants to spend 15 minutes in the casino, once per week, and expects to be a millionaire overnight. But there are of course other players that are happy with a few thousand profit here and there it can be achieved realistically with a few hours per week, assuming the conditions are suitable in their casino for quicker play methods, which is usually the case. There are many legitimate methods to beat roulette I teach - some are quicker but "skill" is required, and some mean long tedious hours in the casino but are easier to apply. Some can be applied on virtually ANY wheel, and some need specific wheels. In my experience any wheel can be beaten, but some of the most modern wheels need the player to have a better understanding of my methods. But it makes sense to play on wheels that are easier to beat, rather than play the first wheel you find as many players do.

As for the training process, generally it starts with you receiving the primordials document which is the basic of basics. After players read it and visit their casino a few times to study points raised in the primordials document, they call or email me explaining everything about the wheels they play on etc, and I advise them personally. It would be impractical to create one massive document that contains every little piece of information. If I did it that way, players would be as confused as hell, especially in light that many players struggle with even the most basic concepts outlined in the primordials document. Every player is different - some grasp the basics and rapidly progress to more advanced methods within a few weeks. Some cant seem to get their feet off the ground. Usually players who dont speak english well progress much slower. Thats because we can literally spend an hour on even one simple point when on the phone. so how long would it take before you start profiting? Days, weeks, or maybe months - it varies incredibly between different players. Realistically, if you visit me, or spend enough time with me via phone and emails back and forth to learn everything, it is a matter of a few weeks to stand on your own two feet without needing much more guidance from me. You can do all you need with specific techniques, or use the software I provide for wheel analysis.

I have many players that have been earning consistently from the methods I teach, for years. But at the same time I have players that have achieved nothing but frustration in years - but I perhaps hear from such players once every 2-3 months if at all. Really all I do is give you the tools - you must use them. It is hard to say how long players have been winning consistently because I dont keep in contact with all players and dont always know what they've been up to - I try to teach players to be independent. “Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.” Previously if a player used custom variants, they relied entirely on me for analysis which took up way too much of my time, which is why I made available a lite version of the wheel analysis software I use, and many players use it to earn a living. On the whole, you decide how quickly you'll stand on your own feet and earn consistently. All I do is provide the tools - players must seek support rather than rely on me chasing them. On occasions I emailed all players asking for updates on their progress, and I was so surprised how many people had questions but couldnt be bothered to ask. On the whole, if you are motivated, willing to learn and actually seek support as needed, and dedicate time frequently (not just once per week), then you can begin earning consistently very quickly.
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solobear
November 12, 2008, 7:59pm Report to Moderator
Still in Diapers
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Hi Wally,
I wanted to add note from a professional player’s viewpoint, one who also happens to be a very grateful student of Steve’s non-computer system.
One of the main themes of Steve’s teaching is to first grasp the concept that you are playing the wheel, & NOT the table. I can see the reason for Steve’s frustration here. Most of the Tete d Tete on this forum and other venues revolves around outside betting, which will never and can never achieve the kind of results that Steve teaches.

I see these new so called: “systems” or “sector bets” on these forums. Or, “just follow my magic formula for betting on thirds” over and over again.
I watch each of them go on for a few weeks, grasping for the magic. Lured in by the possibility that someone has finally found it: “Eureka!”
Then only to find a few weeks later that the damn thing had no legs. Of course it has no long term legs, or appeal.
It is based on random events. Numbers with no memory.  Even a basic High School statistics class will teach you these unfortunate, but true facts. It takes a minimum of 10,000 spins for roulette patterns to level out- Red, Black Odd- Even.
They are more likely to occur in random strings or sequences, only getting to the 50-50 level after thousands of plays.
That is why Fibonacci has not longevity.
That is why a 50-50 or outside 3rd’s bet will only get you into trouble eventually.
You cannot hope for success if you do not attack the physical and mathematical aspects and flaws of the game.
Steve teaches many brilliant ways to overcome that edge. I live in the states also, & used to be incredibly frustrated with double zero U.S. wheels. However, double zeros pay up also, if you know it is time to bet on them.
G.W. roulette physical systems show you at least 9 different ways to make that extra 3% house edge go away. Those two zeros do not matter any more.
In fact, I love having 38 slots, when I know that those zeros are in my predicted sector.
Roulette is the 3rd  lousiest percentage edge for the house out of all American. casino games.
Baccarat is #1, Craps #2,  and Roulette # 3
(Some may dispute the order, but not the games and this is not counting skilled poker or blackjack edges)
You only have to get over a 2-5% winning ratio-This is not hard if you know where the ball will land 60% + of the time. For me, Roulette is by far #one, because I can physically and logically tilt the house edge to my advantage.

Another fact: the wheel can be the most modern model out there-
The dealers are still the house’s biggest vulnerability (in my opinion).
Dealers are also my Heros, I never want to beat them up.
In most U.S. Casinos, they want you to win and love high rollers, as long as you don’t make them look bad. When they hold that little ball in their fingers and spin the same way each and every time. Or, when they stop the wheel and spin in one motion – they create predictability very far from randomness. That is, when you know what you are looking for.
Using GW strategies taught me what to look for. This kind of knowledge completely separates you from 499 out of 500 players that will sit next to you at a live table.
They all stare at the numbers on the table. They all do there little groupings and circle those “hot” numbers-Never glancing at the real culprit, the wheel.
You just need to be willing to do the work, treat this like the skilled occupation that it is, and never blow your wad. No progressive nonsense, just steady percentage winning. This is where even the wealthiest high-rollers go wrong.
When you pay attention to everything, spot every flaw, watch every movement, and play with extreme discipline; you’re there. The house edge will melt away. It is not rocket science as they say, you only have to shave a few points off that edge to get paid almost every time you take that magic seat. Nobody else wants to give you this information. Certainly not the house. Certainly not other pros, unless your teaming up with them.
I made the cost of the non-computer training system back in my first week of play. It has been all gravy ever since that week.
There is a guy on one of the G.W. Mpeg-testimonials that ends with “why don’t you charge more for this stuff?”  I am in complete agreement. However, I also understand, as Steve does, how many maniacs there are in this industry. It does not always attract the most sensible or trustworthy types. After all, Casinos are not-morality based enterprises.
On the other end of the argument is the fact that level-headed people tend to do exceptionally well at the game- Go figure?  
The hard part? Steve has the difficult part- dealing with maniacs and con-artists on a regular basis. We’ve got it easy. All we have to do is read, listen, learn and win.
As for me and my job? I find winning on a regular basis a fine way to make a living.

And no, I am not Steve’s cousin or long lost American brother (so many pessimists out there?)
I agree that in most cases, it pays to be cautious. However, not in this case.
This is gambling we are talking about here.
Casinos are controlled by the most money-grabbing owners on the planet today.
No real product, just suckers.
They need, no, they deserve to be taken down whenever possible. After all, somebody has to win in this world: Why not us?
When you approach it realistically, that 5-6% edge ain’t much. True believers can wipe these kind of odds out by just a small amount of listening and learning.–Steve gives you a lot more than that.

.













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Wally Gator
November 13, 2008, 10:53am Report to Moderator
Still in Diapers
Posts: 26
Solobear,

Thanks for your post.  And, I am a believer.  A quick question for you: why do you believe you have been consistently successful and others fail using the same information and/or access to that information?  If 10 people were given the same test over and over and only 1 initially got all the answers correct, it would only be a matter of time, provided the information did not change, that the other 9 realized the same success.  What am I missing here?  Emotion?  Inability to follow instructions? Too difficult?  Too easy?  Lack of discipline?  Lack of time?  No patience?  What?  We're talking about losing money here if you don't eventually "get it", and you've spent a considerable amount for the investment.  Maybe I'm naive, but I keep scratching my head when thinking of this.  Appreciate your thoughts.  Thanks.

Gator
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