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Anandram
February 2, 2009, 1:52am Report to Moderator

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I have been informed (not by Steve) that his methods are a lot more than Dealer sig. Not everything he teaches is in that document, my point being that not to judge his knowledge by one document.

I believe he purposely leaves out the finer details because of people like Bago who may do exactly what Bago done yesterday (publicly release the doc). I believe you have to contact him once trust is gained in orde for him to explain the finer details.


Aside from that and regarding the proof, ok, forget the video demo, how would you dissapprove of the online videos he has of large profits in around 1hr? "controlled environment"?? No. it clearly shows the effectiveness does it not?

Are you saying that the information/methods in the primordials document is not effective?
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Kelly
February 2, 2009, 2:30am Report to Moderator
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Well, they might be effective in some environment, all im saying is that there are better ways, that works in controlled but also not so controlled environments  as the ones in the demos.  I know for a fact that in many of the european casinos, he won`t make a lot of money with the download method. In a lot of places he won`t even be able to track a wheel that qualifies. And IF a wheel qualifies i believe he will soon be in trouble. On the other hand, im not saying they don`t exists in Europe, they are just hard to find. For example in San Remo, Italy, they have some 50 - 60 wheels but change the dealer every 12 - 15 minutes and you will only be able to track 8 - 10 spins with that dealer. In germany a dealer lasts 1/2 hour but they have a slow modus operandi and you still wont get more than 8 or 10 spins in each direction in each shift. You need a faster, different and more precise tracking method for that kind of game.  On top of that, the ball types is a bit more alive than the ones in the videos.

All i can judge is the documents i have seen. He might have better, i don`t know.  

Having said all this, i think the document is well written and is basicly better than most other methods discussed on the boards because it takes physical components in consideration.
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Anandram
February 2, 2009, 4:48am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kelly
Well, they might be effective in some environment, all im saying is that there are better ways, that works in controlled but also not so controlled environments  as the ones in the demos.  I know for a fact that in many of the european casinos, he won`t make a lot of money with the download method. In a lot of places he won`t even be able to track a wheel that qualifies. And IF a wheel qualifies i believe he will soon be in trouble. On the other hand, im not saying they don`t exists in Europe, they are just hard to find. For example in San Remo, Italy, they have some 50 - 60 wheels but change the dealer every 12 - 15 minutes and you will only be able to track 8 - 10 spins with that dealer. In germany a dealer lasts 1/2 hour but they have a slow modus operandi and you still wont get more than 8 or 10 spins in each direction in each shift. You need a faster, different and more precise tracking method for that kind of game.  On top of that, the ball types is a bit more alive than the ones in the videos.

All i can judge is the documents i have seen. He might have better, i don`t know.  

Having said all this, i think the document is well written and is basicly better than most other methods discussed on the boards because it takes physical components in consideration.


Correct, people can only judge what they have seen, but i know that there is more to it than whatever is in the document. You are also correct in saying the methods are effective in the some environments, but Steve does not hide this fact. Most of the testimonials and his text on his site state that you need to find the right conditions before playing, so this is no secret.

There may well be better ways and these ways may be the ones not documented by Steve to preserve his secrets. Im assuming this is one of the main reasons why Steve advises that contact with him is the number 1 key to any kind of success with his methods.

Good to be able to converse about this instead of having to deal with erratic child like posts.

What are these "better methods" you speak of anyway?
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Steve
February 2, 2009, 7:09am Report to Moderator

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I have said a million times that dealer signature and the primordials are only a small part of my methods. You have clowns like Bago trying to convince people of otherwise. I see Bago is trying to distribute a document telling everyone this challenge doesnt need to take place now. Bago what are you afraid of? If you want to see an outline of what I teach, download http://www.genuinewinner.com/gw.zip

By the way Bago, many people who see the primordials document, even an older one, tend to increase their interest in my methods because they see it is based on real science, not hocus pocus. You may actually be benefiting me.

Yes it is obvious who Mamool was - Bago, who doesnt have a clue what he's saying. Really some of what is being said here is so far off the mark that it is not worth correcting. I get very tired of it. Like for example Bago is saying I'm wrong for covering 19 numbers in my video. Actually Bago, with many methods, covering more numbers wont increase your edge, but it increases your winnings. Bago really doesnt have any idea what he says. Bago in his infinite wisdom should know in reality players cover anywhere from 1 - 11 numbers, and very rarely more.

Indeed there have been players that have struggled. Is it really my doing? Consider this: when a player like "highlander" has access to virtually every proven effective method including but not limited to visual ballistics, but they cant make it work, does that suggest I'm a scammer, or the player has no idea what they're doing? Kelly, how would you feel if you were trying to teach someone VB and they couldn't understand even some basic concepts, then they call you a scammer? By the way, Uchimata is well known on my forum - he was banned as a player. Before he was banned, he announced he won over $100,000 with bias analysis. So why was he calling me a scammer? I'm not sure about that - he wins a huge amount then attacks me for it. He argued that the primordials dont work. Actually they do, but even if they didnt, then why not just focus on another method I teach? Is it really that hard?

Kelly, on one hand you have a few morons like Bago. On the other hand there are players that know better and swear to be succeeding with my methods. Some have posted here, and one of them even gave the testimonial at http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial7CSUSA.wma - is the testimony of all people Bago credible? Considering he recently clearly demonstrated confusion between correlation charts and bias analysis, a colossal mistake, I'd say it's safe to say Bago is an amateur, and he's defending his honor like a child. True Kelly you can only judge what you know, but you know only a fraction of the whole picture. Specifically with the primordial 1 which Bago terms dealer signature: while I have clearly stated many times it is most certainly not my most effective method, does it not work or something? Read and understand it, and you'll see an edge can be achieved. The question is more can such conditions be found? Yes, but they are rare. Everyone that is a genuine player knows I tell them to avoid primordial 1 because it has very strict rules that are hard to come by. So what do I teach players:

1. Everyone starts out with the primordials document sop they can understand what a correlation chart is, and the basic dynamics of ball ballistics.

2. Once the player has read and understood the basics, based on where they play and what is possible, they begin to learn what they'll actually apply. This can be anything from visual ballistics to custom variants. I teach virtually every advantage method there is.

Sure, you heard from Bago that custom variants dont exist. Like I would ever trust such a child with such methods. CVs are simply a combination of techniques and pattern types for a combined overall edge. There is nothing odd or magical about them - it is plain science. They are only mystical to morons that dont know any better. Kelly if you want to get involved, we can involve you too, then you can see for yourself what I've been saying.

What still amazes me is that the same idiots attacking me are praising techniques like visual ballistics and bias analysis - which are only a part, but still part of what I teach. Why do they attack me? For varied reasons. Bago, highlander and uchimata, I'm not exactly concerned that you want to start some big wild case against me. Highlander, if you are who I think you are, where we left things last, I asked to speak with you via the phone about some matters, mainly that you have a very poor understanding and I want to support you, but also about some things other members have told me about you. Uchimata, you were banned for good reason. Dont forget to tell the ACCC about your $100,000 winnings. Bago, hi - with you extensive experience, dont forget to tell the ACCC how evil and scamming advantage techniques are. Or perhaps you should realize to report someone, they actually have to have done something wrong. Specifically with you Bago, if I were at all dishonest, I would have kept your money but instead I refunded it as I didnt want to deal with such a child. It had nothing to do with your complaint, and every one of your complaints is addressed in detail at http://www.roulettewars.com/bago.html so everyone knows what an idiot you are. You think it was because of Mark's site, when now you know I could have had it shut down anytime. Let's look at Highlander, Uchimata and Bago - all three of them refused my support calls on the basis that they didnt speak english well enough. Coincidence? I dunno, what's the standard deviation on that? One player once reported me to the ACCC, and I provided the ACCC with all the information needed and the player ended up apologizing to me. Why if I were dishonest would I trade as a corporation when the ACCC has a mandate to pursue dishonest corporations? Perhaps I'm just honest, and perhaps my methods do work.

Anyway, let's stick to what counts: validating my claims about the computer will be very easy for Ronjo. There are many dvds to choose from, and on any one of them he can do the different diamond test where he'll see virtually all predictions within a 3 pocket arc, then bye-bye to false claims that my computer gives random predictions. This is not just a minor point - it is major, and it seems like Bago is still busting his butt to discredit the challenge and steer people away. That is why he publishes documents and tells people not to follow this challenge - he's afraid of looking like an incompetent moron.

As for the system, anyone with a neutral perspective like Ronjo need only have a few things explained to them for them to know the majority of methods I teach have nothing to do with dealers. Yes of course dealer signature has a lot to do with dealer signature, but I'm not talking about that. Bago just wants everyone to believe that. Dealer signature does indeed work though, but it is not the most practical or effective method - I have said this a million times.

Rest assured, everything will be covered with Ronjo - fromt he computer's different diamond test, to methods I teach that have nothing to do with dealer signature. In the end, all clowns like Bago can do is claim I'm Ronjo, which they already have.

With all the scammers out there that tell you that you can win millions against RNG spins betting on dozens with some secret bet, why do a few people want to focus on me? Gee do I claim to beat RNGs or something, or do I very clearly say to focus on the physics of real wheels? People attack me for varied reasons, and from this whole thing I have learned the more you are in the spotlight, the more people want to tear you down. Reality it is it is actually not a lot of people that attack me - it is only a few and they post a lot of messages. If you do thorough research you'll see a hell of a lot more people support me than attack me, but people tend to focus on the negatives. Many of my players are offering to give audio testimonials which address the rubbish Bago wants everyone to believe, and I just might take them up on that offer. At the very least, I'm putting Ronjo in touch with some of my players so he can speak to them for himself, and see what a clown Bago is.

Ronjo, I'll try and get out today to mail everything so we can conclude this. For every 1 moron like Bago that attacks me, there are literally about 50 others that feel the complete opposite, and support me. I specifically ask my players to avoid these discussions for numerous reasons. Whatever is being said, whatever is being done to attack me, whatever. All truth comes out eventually.
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Kelly
February 2, 2009, 2:29pm Report to Moderator
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Don`t get me wrong Steve, i know what i need to know about Bago, do need to go deeper ?  I also stated that i can only judge what i have seen, i don`t really gives a rats a** what the rest of the vendors says about you, and i also don`t give a rats a** what you say about them, its a war you guys have to fight alone.

Like i said we should all be in the same boat but all those issues comes in the way. It has come to a point where i don`t really wanna discuss things on boards, not even in e mails, because some people feels they can intimidate one by displaying stuff that was meant for the receiver of the e mail  only.  Well they can, but only once and the damage is not the intimidation but the info that is suddenly public knowledge. And for what ? Hee look at me, see what i can post.   Idiots.

There are some genuine players around and i will stick to them although i have been inactive for almost 3 months now. My critic of your system is what it is, its based on the free documents only and obviously i can not and will not comment on anything else.  The critic of the system is no worse than it can be boiled down to bee too unflexible and too heavy to steer round on the wheel when played on a more modern and alive wheel with a higher spread.

Its true that the winnings can sometimes be higher despite a lower edge but a wider sector, but usually, if the edge is still there after the wider sector has been inforced, we will just get a more steady flow in the cash in/cash out stream, not more winnings. In fact, you might actually get less winning units if the sector is extended from 9 pockets to 19  The problem with the wider sector is that the loops between the higher probability sectors are also covered, which means that not only the 1/25 prob. pockets but also the 1/40 prob. pockets are covered and that cuts the edge and if the sector is wide enough, also the amount of profit units. But again, its individual from wheel to wheel.
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Steve
February 2, 2009, 3:34pm Report to Moderator

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That all depends on the scatter you get. Often a 5 number arc is optimal, sometimes it is half the wheel. In most cases, it is half the wheel. As for the other stuff, again you can only judge what you have seen. Anyway the offer to participate is here, but Ronjo will see all he needs anyway and most people are aware of who he is etc.
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alarian
February 2, 2009, 9:51pm Report to Moderator
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Now there's so much bla bla bla about these Bago, Forester and Mark...
Why don't you just drop it? Noone who reads this forum gives a crap about their opinions and I doubt anyone has the energy to read your constant essays about them.
I'm not trying to be a negative critic here but you're wasting your time Steve.

It seems that all this talk about ridiculous matters has also taken away the focus from what's actually worth reading in this topic.

THE TEST!

Please read my post from 30 January 2009, 2:37pm.
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Steve
February 3, 2009, 6:17am Report to Moderator

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Patience Alarian, Ronjo's package is on it's way. Ronjo I suggest start with the different diamond test and put an end to this part, then we can take it from there. If I havent sent you the instructions I will today along with the parcel tracking details.
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Steve
February 3, 2009, 9:23am Report to Moderator

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Ronjo, the scatter chart of the main demo I sent you is below. This is not from the tuned prediction though, it is from the raw prediction. I'll have to manually do the scatter chart from the tuned prediction, but effectiveness is clear anyway. One important thing to note is the accuracy of the computer with respect to which diamond is being hit - it is almost always correct. Anyway I'll email you more information soon. I've opted to use the simpler settings so although accuracy is not maximized, replication for you will be easier. If you do exactly what I do, you should have much the same results. But still anyway, the main point is the different diamond test, and you have plenty of spins to use. To me this challenge is more about showing everyone what incompetent morons, and plain dishonest people are out there attacking me. I have no intentions of releasing trade secrets to achieve that goal, and I dont need to anyway - that is why the different diamond test is a point to focus on.

  0:
  1: X
  2: X  X  X  X  X  X
  3: X  X
  4: X  X
  5: X  X  X
  6: X
  7: X  X  X  X
  8: X  X  X  X  X
  9: X  X  X
10: X  X
11: X  X  X
12: X
13: X
14: X  X
15: X
16:
17: X
18: X
-18:
-17:
-16:
-15: X
-14: X
-13: X
-12: X
-11: X
-10: X  X
-9: X
-8:
-7: X
-6: X  X  X
-5: X
-4: X
-3: X  X
-2: X  X  X
-1: X  X

Again this is a mk7 wheel - Huxley's current model, and it is perfectly semi-tilted so it represents about 95% of wheels out there. Predictions are quite early so there is ample time to place about 5 chips (5 numbers). The lighter teflon ball is used, not a lead sinker. Eventually I'll release the video, so everyone can see how the computer distinguishes between diamond hits etc. You can see quite frequently a horizontal diamond is hit, deflecting the ball around the wheel, so you get all the typical behavior of modern wheels. Barnett said it couldn't be done, but he can remain convinced until he sees the video for himself. Not long now.

PS - Ronjo I'll contact a few players to see if they're willing to speak to you - both system and computer players. I'm sure what they have to say will make you see clearly what fools people like Bago are. I've always said for every idiot like Bago, there are tonnes of other players that will say the complete opposite to him. Dont just take my word for it, I have every intention of arranging for you to speak with real players - both profit split partners of mine, and players that purchased from me. On this note, if any of my players reading this would like to speak to Ronjo, let me know. Ronjo will have a much better idea about me and my technology / system from people that know the difference between bias analysis and correlation charts, right Bago? For system players, I especially want whoever speaks to you to focus on the fact that just about every one of my players ignore the dealer. At most, they may stick to dealers that dont spin the wheel at warp speed. My system does not rely on dealer signature. Sure it uses such patterns if they are present and why shouldn't it. Just like custom variants use bias IF it is present. Only to the layman, someone trying to discredit me, or someone that just doesnt know any better is my system about dealer signature. If you find children like Bago credible, I am Satan himself. If you speak to "adults" that have worked with me, that have been trustworthy enough to be privy to deeper levels my non-computer prediction methods, then you will see a very different picture to what is portrayed by stooges.

To the stooges, by all means continue your desperate crusade - it's your word against people with far more integrity, plus there's a lot more of them than you.
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Steve
February 3, 2009, 10:35am Report to Moderator

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Also Kelly, when you listen to what Forester and Bago have to say about my system, you are listening to people that really have no idea what they're talking about. There are so many misconceptions and idiots out there that have their own take on what my system is about. On one point about 333,666,999, it is because one of the pattern types uses multiples of 3 is all. If you had 334 spins it is no big deal at all. Forester doesnt know what he's on about. I'm not going to disclose all my secrets just to prove a point - I rightfully keep it to myself. At the end of the day what matters is many of my players are doing extremely well, and yes including players that use format 1. Things tend to not make sense when you dont have the full picture, or if you dont understand something. Anyway I'll address all the rubbish points from people like forester in time - but we're starting with the computer and different diamond test. After that, the stooges will lose quite a lot of credibility but it would still be far from over. Granted, a large part of forester's ravings are plain misunderstandings, lack of knowledge and ignorance. But he's so pigheaded to even consider that he is wrong, plus he gets his information from similar idiots like Bago so of course he wont get accurate information. What forester does is takes elemental (primordial) theory from a small fragment of my methods, then tries to attack it. Is he qualified to judge something he knows very little about? Is it "correct" to look at the paint job of a car and say yay or nay that the car will drive? Of course not but that's what he's trying to do, and he's trying to convince people he actually knows something about my methods. Will he ever admit he is really just speculating? Of course not - he wants to be right, and be seen by others as right - if forester was interested in the TRUTH, things would be very different. for one thing he would have agreed to meet me where he would be proven wrong, but instead he runs and hides lying to people saying I avoided meeting him. The clown has only ever seen a primordial doc and he gets information from people like bago, and two spanish players that were banned - I might add again I tried to speak to all three of them to support them, and all three of them refused because they didnt speak english well enough.. Well, it's not a coincidence - I always say the biggest factor in a player's success or failure is their communication with me. If I cant even get a player on the phone and need to chase them to support them, what hope do they have. As for Forester, yes we'll all see just how much he knows about my computer very soon, and the system will be addressed in time. Anyway I'm just saying hear it directly from me, not fourth-hand information and speculation. If you listen to idiots, you end up taking on their misunderstandings. If you want an answer to anything about my methods, you are best to ask myself directly. I am supremely confident though kelly if you did join Ronjo in the validations, that you will see just how format 1 can be used to beat modern wheels, with no attention being paid to the dealer. Based on your comments, it would be new information to you. I know that you have sound knowledge of roulette, but respectfully you dont know everything.
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Steve
February 3, 2009, 12:12pm Report to Moderator

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Ronjo, below is scatter from tuned prediction. The chart INCLUDES the qualification spins, which are still when the computer hasnt learnt the wheel. It's not as impressive as it would be if the wheel was an older design, heavily tilted and with a lead ball, but the edge is clear. The conditions used in the video are what the "experts" like Barnett claim are impossible on modern wheels, so bare this in mind. You can verify the scatter for yourself. Despite the difficulty of the conditions, the results are still actually better than Mark's computer on his heavily tilted Monte Carlo wheel with a lead-weight ball. As for Forester's computer, it wouldnt have a chance of knowing which diamond will be hit on a mk7 wheel, and with his device, predictions are random on modern wheels, just as Barnett found too. Maybe that's why Barnett doesnt believe it - because he tested rubbish while looking to steal other people's designs, claiming it was some sort of public test. Hmm. Anyway you can see some of the major problems with forester's computer at http://www.roulettecomputers.com/comparison.htm - and Forester calls me the scammer.. Really I'm not interested in attacking the moron though - I just want to defend myself.



Again although you wont have problems replicating it, the main thing to do is the different diamond test. Upon reviewing the dvd, the ball is harder to see when it spins very fast, but the ball becomes clearly visible around about where you start your clicks anyway. Some of my clicks are terrible as you'll see, so you may even do better than I did. I'll write you an email shortly with more information.

Ronjo I know you are no fool, and if I were attempting to fool you with magnets or some form of trickery, you will see it. No doubt you will be accused of being incompetent, or even being me (as you already have). No matter what, the stooges will attack what you say if it is even remotely positive. I dont think you're the type of person to really care what they say anyway - just tell it like it is. As I said from the start, I'm not interested in what the clowns will say at the end of this all because we already know what they'll say - the truth doesnt suit them. Essentially what is about to take place is the clowns will be trapped. The truth will slap them in the face, but we know they wont change their stance. Their reaction to the obvious truth says a lot about their characters. Is there anything that will make them admit the truth? Nope. Even Mark, after I released video proof, was forced into a corner and his last resort was to claim I was actually using his computers in videos. He's changed his stories many times though. Bago and Forester are no different - cowards running from the truth because it makes them look stupid.
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Ronjo
February 3, 2009, 1:05pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Steve,

I am ready and I would love to talk to your players,it will be a pleasure.And as for anyone to think that Ronjo and Steve are the same person would be ridiculous.There are plenty of reliable forum members here on RR and @ VLS who know who I am,and when the time comes I am sure they will back us up 100%.

Regards,
Ronjo.
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Steve
February 3, 2009, 2:38pm Report to Moderator

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Hi Ronjo, check your email and another one coming shortly. I wouldnt worry about people accusing you of being me - it is only the stooges that say that anyway because they must. I haven't seen anyone else question your identity. Everyone at VLS knows better, and so should everyone here. And besides, you are part of a group of people that know each other. For example, you know Lanky well and have spoken to him. I'm sure there are many others that know beyond a doubt we aren't the same person. So it's not just you people will listen to, it is numerous well known and trusted members in the roulette community. This is precisely why you were one of the ideal candidates. If it were just you and you alone, then I could understand if people might question who you are. Either way at the end of at least the computer validations, I'd like to speak with you via phone and record the call.

As per my recent email, in the DVD of the MK7 wheel you need to verify the following:

1. Footage is continuous and uncut.

2. Predictions are approx 8-9 secs before the ball falls

3. Predictions are virtually instant once the button is clicked for the last time. There is no 1 second delay or such rubbish like Forester claims.

4. It is a mk7 wheel. You can tell by the diamonds and pockets mainly. NOTE: The plastic in the pockets was removed. This means the ball bounces on metal, not plastic so bounce is even greater. The zero pocket is actually blue, not green, not that it makes a difference though. The missing green made play too difficult via dvd.

5. It is a semi-tilted wheel. So there is a slight drop zone, but it's nothing like the ball hits the same diamond almost every spin.

6. Frequently the ball hits a vertical diamond, and/or clips another diamond etc, so the spins are indicative of a modern wheel.

7. The ball used is 5/8" teflon. It is the light bouncy variation, not the heavy bugger that drops straight down. This is important because the heavy variation will drop even if it hits a horizontal diamond. This is not the case with the light teflon ball because if a horizontal diamond is hit, it can easily skate to the other side of the wheel. I didnt use the 3/4" ball because it has less scatter - the bounce is more predictable. I didnt want to make it easy. Additionally a lighter ball is more affected by air pressure variations. Normally it doesnt happen so quickly, but due to melbourne's recent crazy weather, the computer needed to adjust for air pressure and ball deceleration variations at least twice I think and this was in the same hour. I mention it when it's happening in the video but it happens seamlessly anyway. Usually you dont notice it and predictions are given as normal.

8. You clearly see the computer, and the predictions on the computer's screen. The predictions are authentic and not merely voiceovers.

9. You can replicate the results achieved in the DVD and the results I achieved were not merely luck

10. Throughout the video, I show you the computer's scatter chart, and the peaks at the start of the video are in the same place at the end of the video. in other words I dont do what Mark does, which is showing raw predictions, choosing a peak then claiming that's where the edge is.

11. The scatter charts displayed above are correct.

12. Absolutely no video recorder (60FPS) is used in setting up on the wheel. The wheel is learnt exclusively from your clicks. This is important because Forester, who knows oh so much about my computer, has long claimed my computer needs to video record a spin for setup.

13. The computer is almost always correct with respect to which diamond will be hit (I forgot to add this one in the email I sent you). If you recall, Mark, who was "Vincent" on this forum, simply didnt believe it was possible. Well no, not with his junk, but my computer is a bit different.

14. The ball track has significant distortions. You can frequently hear the ball rattle, which makes ball behavior more "chaotic" and less predictable. But still predictions are accurate. I wanted you to hear the distortions which is why I used that room in the video - it echoes a lot. The room is my basement. You cant hear rattles in a real casino but it doesnt matter anyway. (I forgot to add this one in the email I sent you)

15. Most importantly: you conduct the different diamond test on multiple spins, and verify that when using the same spin, most predictions are within a 6 pocket arc after the first sample, then soon after a 3 pocket arc. If you use more clicks and become skilled at clocking, then you can comfortably start out with almost all predictions within a 3 pocket arc

Anything else you do to validate my claims is up to you. Please be very careful about what is said about the computer here - you are best to contact me directly with questions/comments while you are still getting the hang of things.

The computer in the video is the exact computer i sent you, as you can see in the scatter chart. So you can even use the computer on the dvd right away if you go into play mode. But to do the different diamond test, because my computer takes diamonds into account, you need to use different settings for the different diamond test as per my email.

Did I miss anything? And please ensure the dvd doesnt skip. Sound is NOT an indicator of whether or not a dvd skips. Bago made this mistake and was actually stupid enough to use a pc dvd player. All this and a few other things are covered in my last email, but the list of what you need to look at is here for others to see.

So it finally begins.. but it is far from over even after the above points are confirmed. After all is done, I expect there will still be doubters but I really dont care. Anyone that wants can investigate everything for themselves and decide who's been honest, and who is plain full of it.

PS - The chainsaw in the background is the neighbor cutting down trees at a bad time. He has some big trees too close to his house which is bad in bushfire season. And the thumping at the end is my wife on the floor above - she thumps 3 times when she needs help with something. I ignored her so she kept calling my phone. What a ball-breaker.
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Steve
February 3, 2009, 4:05pm Report to Moderator

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Posts: 2,668
PS Ronjo I'll send you another DVD but this time with the ivorine ball. Thats because it completes more revolutions and is easier to conduct the different diamond test - it's easier to see than the small teflon ball too. I'll try and send it off within the next day or so.
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Kelly
February 3, 2009, 4:09pm Report to Moderator
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Posts: 81
I try only to comment on what i read. Forester and Bago has their opinions, they don`t influence mine. You also have your opinions, they don`t influence me either. Wether Forestes device works or not i don`t know. I know one of his buyers and has seen the device, he also offered me to borrow it so i could test it, but i was really not interested. The buyer said he hadn`t been able to make it work. He was gonna get a new and impoved model and he promised to come and see me when he had bought the new BMW he was expecting to win. Well he haven`t been here yet.

All i have read is the download and the page with the 1, 2, 3 spin format. Spin format 1 didn`t make sense. In fact, you should be able to win your own contest with that method. Format 2 and 3. Well i don`t know the rules except for what is written and i gave my opinion to that on the other board.
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