With the absolute nonsense published about my technology from numerous morons (mainly competitors under fake names), it may be difficult to know what or who to believe. The more serious players tend to visit me personally to see for themselves. To take this option, see http://www.genuinewinner.com/conference.htm

Out of over 500 players, there is still the occasional 'nutty' player that has no idea what they've purchased. If this were only 1% of players, that's still 5 or so players. And believe me when I say, there are more nuts in the gaming industry than any other indistry - it baffles me how 'backwards' some people are. Some may occasionally publish their misunderstandings and/or distorted information. What about the other 99% of players? If my technology works, why aren't we seeing hundreds of satisfied customers posting about their winnings everywhere? Firstly, that would be a breach of contract because they'd be identifying themselves as players, and secondly they'd rather just keep it to themselves. So the only feedback you read about my technology is:

1. Fake negative reviews from competitors (for example see http://www.genuinewinner.com/markhowe.htm)

See http://www.roulettewars.com for detailed account of what competitors do under fake names to try and compete.

2. Feedback from the very few unsatisfied players (about 5 out of 500 players)

3. Hearsay from forum members that read fake negative reviews / distorted information - unfortunately some people are taken in by the rubbish others publish, and they perpetuate the lies thinking they're correct.

4.  Caluculated attacks and petty 'revenge' for things like banning people from the forum. I've also banned numerous players of my system and computer for contract breach, and they've threatened to post all over forums if I dont give software access back. On this note, the most assured way to NOT get what you want is to threaten me.

Do you really expect people to come out of the woodwork sharing success stories? What my teams have achieved will eventually be published by mainstream media, and it will rival the Ritz group and Garcia-Pelayo stories. To those that know us well, my group are considered the foremost experts in roulette prediction. To competing cheating device sellers, who dont actually use their technology, we are scammers. You decide.

Any system or device is only as good as the user. A system or computer is nothing more than a tool. A bad tradesman blames his tools. In this case, perhaps 1% of genuine player have no idea what they've purchased or how to use it. Arguably it's a pity my successful players dont defend me on forums, but they have better things to do.

To dispel myths, I've provided videos of public demos, audio testimonials, test reports, videos with minute details like lava lamps in the background (to show video is uncut) and much more. Do competitors do this? No, they pretend to be my players under fake names and give fake negative reviews. Competitors and some individuals will ALWAYS try to discredit me no matter what I do. They are not interested in the truth, so they attempt to refute any proof I provide. For example, they claim the public demos and recorded phone calls were probably with my family members or someone paid by me. Such claims are complete rubbish and desperate attempts to discredit me. Why? For a variety of reasons - typically whoever lies about me is usually doing it to protect either their business interests, or their ego. For example, competitors wouldn't want my technology to be effective, and neither would people that have long claimed I'm a scammer because if I were to suddenly prove them wrong, they'll of course say whatever they must to protect their ego and reputation. One example is competitors initially claimed I would never hold public demonstrations and that the promise of public demos was merely to increase sales - but now that I have conducted numerous public demos, competitors claim attendees of my public demos are probably just family members. They made similar claims like that recorded phone calls from my players were probably from paid people, or their winnings were just luck - but you dont win $100k+ just from luck (for example hear http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial6ADGermany.wma - this player won 70k EUROS so far), and all players can speak to each other via the player only forum (including those that gave audio testimonials) - players frequently call each other, meet each other etc, and if my technology was a scam, the last thingn I'd do is provide my players with a convenient forum to converse.

Unfortunately it is my word against many morons that constantly make new bogus claims, and I dont have the time to respond to every pathetic lie. But the truth is indeed on my side, and all truth comes out eventually. As I like to clear the air and make the truth known, I suggest visiting me in person. As for players that cannot visit me, I suggest the following:

1. Accross all forums, GG, VLS, this forum etc, we identify one member who is well trusted - someone that has been around for a while, and people know are not affiliated with me etc. Someone that is well trusted and respected.

2. I will pay for them to visit me personally for a public demonstration of the hybrid roulette computer (http://www.hybridroulettecomputer.com), standard roulette computer (http://www.roulettecomputers.com) and roulette system (http://www.genuinewinner.com). Only what is available for purchase will be demonstrated - we will NOT demonstrate our most effective technology (what our closest teams are using). I'll also demonstrate competing devices (like both of Mark Howe's computers and Forester's device so they can see for themselves what nonsense they are).

The visitor will see all the myths dispelled. The demonstrations will be video recorded, although some parts will not be published to preserve secrets - the rest of it is fine for publishing (accuracy. checking the wheel for tampering, results etc). I will pay (in advance) for the visitor's airfares, accomodation and any other expenses. They will spend 2-3 days in Melbourne, so they need to be able to spend that time away from home (unless they are already in Melbourne).

Any suggestions on WHO may be the ideal and willing candidate?

It is quite easy to prove truth, so if anyone has any suggestions for validation of my technology, by all means make suggestions provided they are realistic. Roulette is not only beatable, millions are secretly being won. It is up to the individual player to do their own research to determine fact and fiction about my technology. Ever since I entered this field, I found enemies I never knew I had. Ultimately if you visit me in person, you will very quickly learn fact from fiction. But regardless, all truth comes out eventually.

The offer is completely real. Assuming all this does proceed (I have every intention of ensuring this), I expect people like competitors to find some new excuse - as they have with every other legitimate proof provided that embarassed them. For those that have actually visited me, and for my players, the competitors are exposed as clear manipulators and liars. By having a trusted representative visit me, more people will clearly see the desperate manipulation of competitors.

Steve,

I don't know if either is interested and I'm not volunteering anyone, but Lanky or TwoCatSam are known and trusted.  Obviously, Lanky is closer to your location.

I remain a doubter myself.  I also really don't care.  I, like others generally enjoy this forum.    

I also don't think that your competion spammed your forum last week unless his/her primary language is Spanish.  Not looking to be banned just noting my observations of the writing style (now deleted) as best I can recall.  Not appologizing for my posts either, but with "johns" posts deleted, mine were somewhat out of context.  I still love the spinning cats.  

These thoughts are written more to you than for the public so I won't mind if you take it down.
RP.

Is it really that difficult to believe that roulette can be beaten? It's not like I claim to be able to do it with red/black bets or against RNG spins. You can see an outline of what I teach at http://www.genuinewinner.com/gw.zip and as for custom variants, they are a culmination of the various techniques, plus results of my own development. It's not the cure for cancer - it's predicting where a little ball will land. Either way, you are free to believe whatever.

Where do Lanky and Sam live? How about it Sam and Lanky? What I'm after is for the visitor to be trusted and respected by just about everyone, not just on this forum, but the various other forums too. So it is not just your opinion or my opinion.

PS - If Johns was writing in spanish, then he was probably a player I recently banned, and this was his petty revenge. He knew the rules for the benefit of all players, he broke them, then takes it out on me. If it's the one I'm thinking of, he won over $100k with some of the methods I teach, but had problems with another of the methods. He refused to so much as call me for support for reasons like he didnt feel he understood english well enough. Thats not the system's fault. As I said, the system is a tool. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Out of almost 500 players, of course a few are bound to have this sort of mentality.

Lanky is from Aus Steve

His IP is from Melbourne which is ideal. I've emailed him about this.

Quoted from Steve

His IP is from Melbourne which is ideal. I've emailed him about this.

Just a suggestion how about Micheal Barnett from Surveillance Technology?He is in Australia also.If you can convince him,I am sure he will be unbiased and give you a good review on his web

I previously called Barnett and invited him to one of my public demos. He said he'd attend if he was in Melbourne at the time, although he wasn't. But I found him to be extremely ignorant and quite arrogant when on the phone to him. Either way, is it really advisable to show a casino consultant intimate secrets?

I dont think he's convinced that my claims could be possibly true, which is probably why he was so arrogant and rude - or perhaps he is convinced he's the expert. What he may be skeptical of is what he'll be chasing soon enough. Again all truth comes out eventually. In previous times, casinos were convinced roulette was random - they thought they KNEW roulette wasn't beatable. Now of course they know better, but they believe there are only a few methods to beat roulette like visual ballistics, bias analysis and computers. Some know better now, and history will repeat itself.

Back many months ago, he called us computer sellers out to have our computers tested. Mark Howe wouldn't dream of that, but Barnett alreeady has Howe's computer anyway. Forester jumped out and sent his computer, then after extensive testing Barnett concluded that even with the ideal conditions of slow motion video and a top view of the wheel, Forester's computer produced near random predictions. Bare in mind Barnett would profit from Forester's computer being a threat as he could then advise casinos. I was saying that Forester's computer was virtually useless all along and have given ample scientific fact, albeit intentionally only part of it. Forester just turned on Barnett calling him names, but Forester is right in saying that Barnett is not the expert he claims to be - he sincerely does have a lot to learn. On the note of Forester and his device, Forester is not a scammer like Mark Howe. Mark is as bad as they get, but Forester just has a poor product, and he does stretch the truth somewhat. Forester is also extremely ignorant, and he'll know that in time but perhaps his ego wont let him admit it.

As for my computer, when I called Barnett to discuss the possibility of testing my computer, I asked him "what do you get out of it?". I had to ask the question more than once, and he responded "it helps me do my job better". Do I really want to help him do his job better? No. He helps casinos.

What I'm after is someone that is known on forums - someone that is neutral. Lanky would be ideal, but he hasnt responded to my emails yet. I thought perhaps Kelly who's on a few forums, so if anyone knows him, please advise him of this. Perhaps even Snow who's also well known.

Quoted from Steve

I previously called Barnett and invited him to one of my public demos. He said he'd attend if he was in Melbourne at the time, although he wasn't. But I found him to be extremely ignorant and quite arrogant when on the phone to him. Either way, is it really advisable to show a casino consultant intimate secrets?

I dont think he's convinced that my claims could be possibly true, which is probably why he was so arrogant and rude - or perhaps he is convinced he's the expert. What he may be skeptical of is what he'll be chasing soon enough. Again all truth comes out eventually. In previous times, casinos were convinced roulette was random - they thought they KNEW roulette wasn't beatable. Now of course they know better, but they believe there are only a few methods to beat roulette like visual ballistics, bias analysis and computers. Some know better now, and history will repeat itself.

Back many months ago, he called us computer sellers out to have our computers tested. Mark Howe wouldn't dream of that, but Barnett alreeady has Howe's computer anyway. Forester jumped out and sent his computer, then after extensive testing Barnett concluded that even with the ideal conditions of slow motion video and a top view of the wheel, Forester's computer produced near random predictions. Bare in mind Barnett would profit from Forester's computer being a threat as he could then advise casinos. I was saying that Forester's computer was virtually useless all along and have given ample scientific fact, albeit intentionally only part of it. Forester just turned on Barnett calling him names, but Forester is right in saying that Barnett is not the expert he claims to be - he sincerely does have a lot to learn. On the note of Forester and his device, Forester is not a scammer like Mark Howe. Mark is as bad as they get, but Forester just has a poor product, and he does stretch the truth somewhat. Forester is also extremely ignorant, and he'll know that in time but perhaps his ego wont let him admit it.

As for my computer, when I called Barnett to discuss the possibility of testing my computer, I asked him "what do you get out of it?". I had to ask the question more than once, and he responded "it helps me do my job better". Do I really want to help him do his job better? No. He helps casinos.

What I'm after is someone that is known on forums - someone that is neutral. Lanky would be ideal, but he hasnt responded to my emails yet. I thought perhaps Kelly who's on a few forums, so if anyone knows him, please advise him of this. Perhaps even Snow who's also well known.

Kelly seems like a good choice.I seconded it

I just always wondered if you can make the mega money claimed Steve, why are you bothering with these forums and selling your techiniques?

Sean, it's not like I dont get a fair price. It's actually better than fair. Hear what one player said about the price:
http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial1EricUSA.wma

As for why am I selling it? For varied reasons, but of course for profit. Do I use it myself? Not anymore as I dont need to - my teams have something even better so why would we need to spend time with a system that's not as effective? Also see below as per http://www.genuinewinner.com/faqs.html

Q1. Why are you selling your winning roulette system?

For a few reasons: first and foremost, we don't need it anymore. Consider that we have powerful roulette computer cheating technology that is even more effective than our roulette strategy. In fact some of our computers are automated, and do not even require the operators to look at the roulette wheels once the camera is aimed (See Hybrid Roulette Computer). We do still have a few roulette system players that pay us 50% of their winnings, but most of our "profit split" arrangements are with regards to our roulette cheating devices. This is because for the time we spend training players, our roulette computer teams are more productive. Learn about our roulette computer partnerships. We do not need further partners at this stage though, so please don't ask - if our team gets any larger, it will be too difficult to manage. Additionally, we cannot possibly play roulette in all casinos - there are thousands of casinos world-wide. So we can afford to allow others to use it - we want to see the result of our hard work being used.

We sell:

System (least effective and take most time/effort, but still millions have been won) - $2500
Standard roulette computer - $5000-$10000 depending on options
Hybrid roulette computer - $25,000 - $100,000 depending on options

Profit split players start with the standard computer (www.roulettecomputers.com/partners.html) and we are still looking for partners. The most productive partners have the option of the Hybrid later (www.hybridroulettecomputer.com) or something completely different which is not for sale.

Of all the things we sell, they are not $50 or so, they are fair prices. We (the whole team combined) cannot possibly play in all casinos as there are too many, but we play in more than enough. So to maximize revenue, we sell it.

Ive never bought that. If you had broken roulette, why on earth would you tell anybody? Im not out to pick an argument with someone who has far more roulette experience than me but you have a bit of a reputation and anyone stupid enough to by a hybrid computer for £25,000 deserves to be fobbed off. You say this hybrid computer can net you 100,000 a week. Again why on earth are you even bothering to sell something which can net you 100k a week? Play for 1 week every month then and net £1.2 million a year, it just doesnt add up.

Steve,

The only thing I struggle with is you have created this forum and many good ideas and systems come from your forum so why cant you post a free system or a way of winning playing roulette ?

No one is asking for the world and all that is posted is also to your benift ?

I also have noted you never seem to pass coments on others systems as an example mine ?

I post systems to screw the casinos and I am not into making a profit out of punters / gamblers.

It's abot time we made the bookies pay as they have had the good times and most sites have crap support so unfair for the punters but they soon take your money.

And a major one that annoys me is if you deposit it come out of your account straight away but most casinos if you withdraw it takes them 7-10 working days sooooooo crap

I would be intrested in your comments

Regard,

Si

Sean:

Quoted Text

anyone stupid enough to by a hybrid computer for £25,000 deserves to be fobbed off. You say this hybrid computer can net you 100,000 a week. Again why on earth are you even bothering to sell something which can net you 100k a week? Play for 1 week every month then and net £1.2 million a year, it just doesnt add up.

What makes you think we aren't using it? Of course we are. Everyone that purchases the Hybrid sees it in person before buying. They also see Howe's and Forester's computer, and my standard computer. They see how it is worth the money before they part with a cent. Anyone able to afford this kind of money is smart enough to know whether or not it's worth the price. It is compulsory to see it before buying, and to meet me because I wont sell it otherwise. Please dont call my players stupid. If it all doesn't add up to you, did you consider there are things that you just don't know? And what makes you think my teams are not consistently winning large amounts?

Simon:

I have published heaps of free information for anyone to construct a winning system. I have said many times how you can and how you cannot win. Not everyone listens. The majority of players are still using outside bets, they are still thinking if you wait for 10 reds that black is more likely to spin next, they are still developing systems for RNG and so on.

When we sell a system or computer, it is like licensing the technology. Is it possible for my private teams to play in all casinos worldwide? No. So we license it out for a fair price. If we sold something like a roulette computer for $100 or so, that would be indicative of the technology being worthless. Our computers sell for $5000 - $100,000 which is a fair price. The large range is being there are automated computers so you dont need to look at the wheel (and error-free timings), and manual computers where you must look at the wheel so you aren't as covert.

The thing is many people say "why on Earth would you sell something that works?", but when you sell it for an APPROPRIATE price, the same people say "oh thats a ridiculously high price, and I'm not paying that".

Simon if you want to sell systems here, go for it. But do it on the right part of the forum or it will be considered spam.

Bookies always win. It's like the tax man and the stock market - there is a winner and a loser, and in the middle is the tax man who wins either way.

In the end, everyone can believe whatever they want. This is a challenge section so ask all the questions you want.

Steve, can i get a more videos of your computer?

Exactly what do you want to see in the videos?

I've ordered a new Huxley wheel (MK7) which is their current model, then I'm doing a video with it. But it arrives late October.

A long video demostration, like 200 spins or something like that.

200 spins is still short-term, but sure a longer video can be done, and it is going to be done when my new wheel arrives. It is very easy to establish proof of effectiveness for roulette computers because you have things like a beep when the ball is predicted to fall, plus you need fewer spins to see proof. For the system or any advantage method, you realistically need 1,000 or so spins unless actual principles that reveal where the edge come from are demonstrated. But to demonstrate the actual principles is not something I'd want to publish for casinos to see, although you see elements of it in person if you visit for a demo.

But look at one simple point for example: chart 100 spins and the diamond the ball hits. You will find 1 diamond is hit significantly more than others. It is almost never a perfect spread. This leads to the time of spin being more consistent, plus it gives you a much greater capacity to know what number is under the diamond when the ball falls. From there it is just scatter analysis. What I've just typed is a very basic explanation to exploit a dominant drop point on a wheel. There is of course a lot more to it, but I'm aiming only to explain one of the many principles my system uses. I am not the only one to know how to exploit such an attribute - it is actually common knowledge to casino consultants.

You can also read pages like http://www.genuinewinner.com/theory.html and decide for yourself if I actually know what I'm talking about, or people who publish entire websites about me under fake names just have something to lose from me being honest. Even at Forester's web site, every time I see it, there's new rubbish he's written about me. I'm not interested in stuffing around. I'm not interested in discrediting him or anyone. I only expose the lies from him and others, and that embarasses them, so they try harder and the cycle repeats. Truth is so much louder than rubbish, and all truth comes out eventually and then he and Mark will be embarassed even more. It's quite a pitty that many people choose to believe him, and they truly do not know the full extent of their manipulation. Mark is far worse, but Forester is part very ignorant, and part plain arrogant and he wants to be "king of the hill" with the BEST computer. It's as if he wants to think he has the biggest penis or something and it's very childish. Despite Forester's ignorance, he IS a liar. I have corrected him many times, and he's just not interested in the truth - even with the smallest details and he cannot seem to even conceive that he was wrong - it'd be too much pain for his ego perhaps. But anyway, like I keep saying, all truth comes out eventually.

Beating roulette is really not all that difficult. There are many legitimate ways it can be achieved. I do not release my secrets, and neither did players who have won millions with the techniques they used 10-50 or so years ago (techniques that no longer need to be secrets). At this stage, when you become my player, you dont receive the techniques - what you receive is the right to use them, and that can be removed at any stage because not all players are trustworthy. As for other techniques I teach, like visual ballistics, sure you can rely on them entirely as some players do. Only either an ignorant fool or someone with something to lose from me being honest would claim I was dishonest, and/or that what I teach is ineffective. Specifically with people like Forester and Howe, they make claims, I clearly prove them wrong, and they get mad for that and try harder. Anyone who's actually visited me would know how... full of excrement they are.

I have no doubt my methods will eventually be common knowledge. But there's still a while for that to happen. People that have doubted the legitimacy of me and my techniques, including competitors, will be red-faced in time - in fact they've already been embarassed numerous times which is partly why they're so mad. Some people are so desperate to protect their ego but like I said, all truth comes out eventually.

hey mr. moderator i have been predicting tennis match very well...

yes i know a lot of tennis and it does help... surface.. head to head match up, how he or she is playing last two weeks or so.. or where he or she is coming from.. maybe some jet log etc... and it is very predictable....

what is your thoughts on that?  I doubled my bankroll comfortably.... just like you predict your wheel.... but tennis more preditable since there are big difference between great player and good player in tennis.... it is hard to find in other sports...

Anyhow.. what is your thoughts on that?  

I've never really gotten into tennis, but I cant see anything wrong with betting on sports. It's like horse racing though - you are ultimately betting against others, and in the middle is the bookie. So you have to be more accurate that others, with a little extra accuracy. One positive to tennis is perhaps many people that bet dont follow the tennis as closely as you would if you treated it as a business. This can give you an advantage. In my experience though, any kind of sports betting is not really about knowing who will win - it's more about value bets.

Quoted from joker

hey mr. moderator i have been predicting tennis match very well...

yes i know a lot of tennis and it does help... surface.. head to head match up, how he or she is playing last two weeks or so.. or where he or she is coming from.. maybe some jet log etc... and it is very predictable....

what is your thoughts on that?  I doubled my bankroll comfortably.... just like you predict your wheel.... but tennis more preditable since there are big difference between great player and good player in tennis.... it is hard to find in other sports...

Anyhow.. what is your thoughts on that?  

Hey joker,when is the next game coming up?I am still waiting for your tips

Hey there right now is in China open.. go to Atptennis.com...

Men's side... roddick looks pretty well.... women's i go  for Kuzetsunova,

and my men robredo... at this point.. i would say safe to bet on Roddick.. but I have to see who is he going to play with...

well my friend.. you have to be careful I don't play anything dangerous... I bet on early round so I can get high percentage winning...

thank you

Quoted from joker

Hey there right now is in China open.. go to Atptennis.com...

Men's side... roddick looks pretty well.... women's i go  for Kuzetsunova,

and my men robredo... at this point.. i would say safe to bet on Roddick.. but I have to see who is he going to play with...

well my friend.. you have to be careful I don't play anything dangerous... I bet on early round so I can get high percentage winning...

thank you

I have put my money on roddick let's see how it goes

Wow.. you made tough bet.. I told you to waitl... he played Ferrero.. boy he is tough customer....

but good news.. you won!!!!!! I also won with Kuztesunova..... my bankroll is triple now......

I hope you didn't put money after Ferrero Match... Never never put money when they are playing quarterfinal or semifinal... anything can happen around this round.....

I will let you know what's good bet next....
hope you won the money with Roddick ... he won the match..... but don't bet on him next.....

oh by the way my man Robredo lost... and no surprise...... and of cource I didn't bet  on him....

Okay I looked through the upcoming bet...

No.. that's it... we done.. sorry... No more.... Anything can happen at any moment from now on...

every tournament is almost coming to end.....

well, don't know how much you know about the tennis but in China open half of the top seeds are gone...

I mean after round of 16.... anything can happen.. especially this kind of smaller tournament....

so don't bet anymore... you probaly made $10 if yo bet $40 or 50 on roddick.... he had hard time agianst Ferrero but he pulled it out...

okay... again no more bet....

Quoted from joker

Okay I looked through the upcoming bet...

No.. that's it... we done.. sorry... No more.... Anything can happen at any moment from now on...

every tournament is almost coming to end.....

well, don't know how much you know about the tennis but in China open half of the top seeds are gone...

I mean after round of 16.... anything can happen.. especially this kind of smaller tournament....

so don't bet anymore... you probaly made $10 if yo bet $40 or 50 on roddick.... he had hard time agianst Ferrero but he pulled it out...

okay... again no more bet....

I made 20 as  I put 100 on roddick.Do keep me inform if there are good bets.Thanks Pal

my pleasure... boy you kind of got lucky.... should have bet on kuzetsunova... women's side... actually if I knew Roddick plays on Ferrero  i wouldn't have bet on it.. but you won.. so it's okay.. well as you know You won't make huge money at once...

and must stick with safe bet... but you think about it... let's say you start with $500 bankroll... you can lose $500 at any game at anytime...

i mean even you start $10 unit... you use any progressive system then you done....  

for this one you won't get emotional.. I bet one match at time.. never muliple.. never.... and this is slow approach but never lose money by losing control...

if you lose the match then you sit and research and place a bet again... if you were in casino you can lose your emotion any time... and heck. we are not really playing.. tennis players are playing and they are very very strickt about cheating.. they can end their career if they lose purposly....

I tripled my bank account without any difficulty... I mean this is the best betting I have encounter in my gambling career.. i don't have to drive.. don't have to deal with weird people at casino.. or i don't have to eat at casino... and I enjoy the tennis so it is great for me... i have billions of tennis match recorded and I know how they play and how they are playing recently...

As I said I was going to bet on number 1 seed... this guy knocked out in first round.. I knew this is coming.. why? he played poorly in his previous match...
and it was his favorite surface also... and plus he came from all the way from Spain to China... and very tired..... and might be possible injury also...
Those players are out.... Tennis.. you have be fresh... i mean you must be...

anyhow.... goodluck

Steve when will you get your new wheel?

My new wheel arrives late October, then Huxley will call me to arrange delivery.

Quoted from Steve

My new wheel arrives late October, then Huxley will call me to arrange delivery.

Hello steve,

so how anyone respond to your challenge already.me like the rest of the people here would really love to know the truth.I guess its good for your reputation as well,it can also clear your name once and for all.Let's push this a bit and get it done asap before the matter turns cold.

I have contacted Lanky but he hasnt responded. If anyone knows him well enough, or if they know Kelly or someone else that is appropriate, please encourage them. I too would like this sorted out, but I dont have the time to go chasing it down every day. In particularly people like Kelly would only need to see some of my system material to know the system is legit, as Kelly is familiar with visual ballistics which are just a part of what I teach. I'd prefer Kelly to come as he is better known but Lanky would be welcome too. Anyone else here interested to visit me with airfares/accomodation paid? The demos will be recorded but your face of course wont be shown. I already have audio from many demos available, especially of the hybrid and each go for a few hours but before they are released I need to spend censoring the audio. With this proposed public challenge I want to make virtually all of it freely available.

Quoted from Steve

I have contacted Lanky but he hasnt responded. If anyone knows him well enough, or if they know Kelly or someone else that is appropriate, please encourage them. I too would like this sorted out, but I dont have the time to go chasing it down every day. In particularly people like Kelly would only need to see some of my system material to know the system is legit, as Kelly is familiar with visual ballistics which are just a part of what I teach. I'd prefer Kelly to come as he is better known but Lanky would be welcome too. Anyone else here interested to visit me with airfares/accomodation paid? The demos will be recorded but your face of course wont be shown. I already have audio from many demos available, especially of the hybrid and each go for a few hours but before they are released I need to spend censoring the audio. With this proposed public challenge I want to make virtually all of it freely available.

Steve,on a personal note I think this is really good for yourself and your company.It will help a lot in creating a positive image and it will defintely shut out your competitors,flamers,liars whoever they are once and for all.You do have a reputation on the web positive ones and negative ones as well.Proving youreslf and methods is a one time off thingy and it can eliminate any negative impression others have about you.

I wish you success in organising this demo session

If anyone knows Kelly, please alert him to this. I've contacted Lanky but received no response. Even Victor / VLS might be ideal. It's only a day here to see what you need, although you need to adjust to timezone. Consider it an all expenses paid holiday.

Hi Steve.

Sorry for the delay.

My Email Has Changed I will Pop in A Message to You.

Yes I am from Australia.

I am not in Melbourne (My IP Address is though)

I am from New South Wales ........About 70 Ks From Star City.

I Spoke to Victor about This a few weeks ago And I thought he had Contacted You.

OK I am Available to do as You have said........

I will report back to this Forum & VLs with the final results.

Lets Talk Steve & Get This Going.

Lanky.

PS...My Email is in Steve's Private Message Box Now.

Quoted from Steve

If anyone knows Kelly, please alert him to this. I've contacted Lanky but received no response. Even Victor / VLS might be ideal. It's only a day here to see what you need, although you need to adjust to timezone. Consider it an all expenses paid holiday.

Hello Steve,

Great news Lanky has finally responded,its really a once in a lifetime opportunity to prove youreslf,do it good and all negative reviews about you will be cleared forever.
I wish you best of luck and success in this challenge.I have faith in you.Prove your worth.

Regards,
Jerek

Quoted from Steve

I have contacted Lanky but he hasnt responded. If anyone knows him well enough, or if they know Kelly or someone else that is appropriate, please encourage them. I too would like this sorted out, but I dont have the time to go chasing it down every day. In particularly people like Kelly would only need to see some of my system material to know the system is legit, as Kelly is familiar with visual ballistics which are just a part of what I teach. I'd prefer Kelly to come as he is better known but Lanky would be welcome too. Anyone else here interested to visit me with airfares/accomodation paid? The demos will be recorded but your face of course wont be shown. I already have audio from many demos available, especially of the hybrid and each go for a few hours but before they are released I need to spend censoring the audio. With this proposed public challenge I want to make virtually all of it freely available.

Hi Steve,
I have been reading your posts with great interest and saw that Lanky had not responded so I contacted him and told him to do so,which he has now done,I would be very keen to participate if you are keen to have me,it would be great if Lanky and myself participated as we are very close friends,and I have been wanting to come to Aussie for sometime to visit Lanky and Nancy, now would be a great oportunity.I have sent my e-mail to your private box.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Steve.

You are correct I don't want My private details to be put on any Forum.

And any nonsense about Me being you has just been blown away now that Ronjo has agreed to participate as well.

Plus I have had the pleasure of meeting three forum Members in the flesh Mate.

And all but one of the three are members here as well as on Victor's Forum.

OK Steve we will sort things out as we go along.

I don't mind waiting until Ronjo can be available Either........It will be good for us all to meet....Plus having another person from overseas would dispel any doubts about the tests being True & Honest.

Rest assured Steve that Ronjo & I will treat You Fairly and report back with the absolute Truth to Both Forums.

Yours Sincerely.

Lanky.

Defo good to get a Saffa to validate you Ausies ;-)

Quoted from lanky

Hi Steve.

You are correct I don't want My private details to be put on any Forum.

And any nonsense about Me being you has just been blown away now that Ronjo has agreed to participate as well.

Plus I have had the pleasure of meeting three forum Members in the flesh Mate.

And all but one of the three are members here as well as on Victor's Forum.

OK Steve we will sort things out as we go along.

I don't mind waiting until Ronjo can be available Either........It will be good for us all to meet....Plus having another person from overseas would dispel any doubts about the tests being True & Honest.

Rest assured Steve that Ronjo & I will treat You Fairly and report back with the absolute Truth to Both Forums.

Yours Sincerely.

Lanky.

Hooray! this is really getting somewhere at last.

Ronjo I can demonstrate to any number of people, and would be happy to meet you, but I'm understandably not going to pay for everyone's airfares and accommodation. I'll cover Lanky's airfares and various expenses but you would need to pay your own way if you attended too. I'm really looking forward to this and putting an end to the rubbish about me. Lanky I'll call you today.

I'm getting some messages about what will be demonstrated so I'll address it here. I'll demonstrate:

1. The standard roulette computer (http://www.roulettecomputers.com)
2. The hybrid roulette computer (http://www.hybridroulettecomputer.com)
3. The roulette system without electronics (http://www.genuinewinner.com)

I'll also demonstrate two of Mark Howe's computers (his mobile phone and psion 3a version) and Forester's FF IQE6 - this is not to discredit them, but to verify my claims about their devices is not merely nonsense between competitors. I'll prepare a clear itinerary and list of things to cover - everything from working principles of the system, to irrefutable tests for the computers. The bottom line is Lanky will see more than what he needs.

As for when, that depends on what Lanky and I arrange, and Ronjo's availability if he attends. I'll speak with Lanky today.

Quoted from Steve

I'm getting some messages about what will be demonstrated so I'll address it here. I'll demonstrate:

1. The standard roulette computer (http://www.roulettecomputers.com)
2. The hybrid roulette computer (http://www.hybridroulettecomputer.com)
3. The roulette system without electronics (http://www.genuinewinner.com)

I'll also demonstrate two of Mark Howe's computers (his mobile phone and psion 3a version) and Forester's FF IQE6 - this is not to discredit them, but to verify my claims about their devices is not merely nonsense between competitors. I'll prepare a clear itinerary and list of things to cover - everything from working principles of the system, to irrefutable tests for the computers. The bottom line is Lanky will see more than what he needs.

As for when, that depends on what Lanky and I arrange, and Ronjo's availability if he attends. I'll speak with Lanky today.

Hi Steve,

I am defintely not getting involed in this,I don't stand a chance at all with my crap skills in roulette and I am defintely not considered a respectable member across all forums.Nevertheless I do have some faith in you putting it off.Winning roulette in tens and hundreds is one issue,winning roulette in tens and hundreds of thousands is another different thing all together,even winning 1 or 5 units is still considered winning isn't it.If it has been advertise on the web then you got to show the people attending the demo how it is done.There has been some negative talk about you at VLS but I did make  a statement to ask everyone to keep their views to themselves and not tarnish other's reputation until the truth is out.

Let's up the stakes a little shall we?All or nothing.Do it in a real casino instead of a controlled enviroment.it may not be convincing enough,even if you are prove your methods are effective in a controlled enviroment.People will accuse you of rigging the wheel or the  wheel is not level these sort of issues.There is a chinese saying that goes like this "Real gold is not afraid of fire".Its a simple statement yet deep in meaning,I am sure all of us know what that statement means.I used to serve in the military and we always have this culture."Do it once,Do it good"Its time to shut people up with their rubbish talk,you want to do this don't you?

Once again,I wish you best of luck and yes I am putting my money on you.

No matter what is done in the demo to Lanky, there will still be people that attack me, for varied reasons. Even when I conduct successful public demos, and even when I arrange othyer public demos as I'm doing now, some people are just not interested in the truth as it does not suit them. There are competitors, banned players, players that had no idea what they were doing, and even banned forum members that I've pissed off over the years, and they'd love nothing more than their claims about me to be true. They will fight to protect their ego. After I meet Lanky, will these people suddenly admit they were wrong? No, of course not. These are not the type of people to admit they were wrong and say "sorry". They'll just make more stupid excuses as they always have when their false claims are refuted.

I cannot demonstrate the computers in real casinos Australia as they are illegal here. The laws specifically state that even possessing them in the gaming area is an instant $5000 fine, whether it is used or not. Actually using it is a whole lot worse. Check the laws with the gaming commission for yourself. As for the system, if I demonstrated over 1,000 spins, that would be about 2 days of play and still people will argue it is possibly luck. Even a red/black system can end up a winner over 1,000 spins. Anyone that understands advantage play would understand that it is easy to lose 1 or 2 days in a week, but very difficult to lose by the end of the week. In other words, anything can happen in the short term. The house edge is not a short-term thing, and neither is overcoming it. What would a successful or unsuccessful test in a real casino prove? Not much - just that over that sample of spins, a profit was made. To the inexperienced, it sounds like the ultimate test, but in actual fact it proves very little whatever the outcome. Mere results of a test is only part of an overall picture. Positive test results do not necesarily prove effectiveness. I plan to give a lot better proof than solely real wheel tests. The demo to Lanky will constitute actual spins on a real wheel, but more importantly it is about validating principles and understand what it is my systems and technology do, and seeing them do it. What i mean is validating principles, not just success in trials - for example with the roulette computers, they beep when the ball is predicted to fall. I can show Lanky 100 or so spins on a real wheel, and we can check the results and/or he can just listen to the computer beep when the ball is predicted to fall, and he will plainly see it is accurate. In fact with Lanky I intend to do both - that is test over real spins, and he will hear the beeps etc. I'll be doing a lot more though, even Forester's different diamond test etc. Another example is Lanky will see my computer predict which diamond will be hit, and the type of hit that will occur. i.e will the ball fall straight down, or hit the top part of the diamond and bounce a fair way accross the wheel. How accurately? Within 1/3 of the diamond, which means my computer can determine if the ball will hit the top, center or bottom part of a specific diamond. A false claim? Lanky will see it for himself over as many spins as he needs to be convinced. This alone will be very clear proof of effectiveness, and it will be better than real wheel tests alone, although as I said we'll do real wheel tests also.

As for whatever may be said about me at VLS, there will always be morons that attack me. You probably mean Bago. He is a complete dickhead that doesnt know what he's talking about. He's probably anticipating further embarassment. Of course Bago is going to defend himself because if he's proven wrong, then people are going to see him as an incompetent fool and he knows that. Bago said "there is no reason why Steven Georges Hourmouzis would refuse to show the accuracy of his computer in the real casino environment since he states that it is undetectable and that it beats the most modern wheels available." - actually yes Bago, there are very good reasons as stated above - you have always shown how "young" you are. But do I even need to test in a real casino? No. A wheel is a wheel no matter where it is. Lanky can spin the wheel himself. And besides I will show Lanky things that will leave him in no doubt that not only is my computer effective on my wheels, but it would be effective on any wheel design under most conditions (there are of course obvious exceptions such as wheel rotors that change speed after no more bets is called). People like Forester may disagree with that claim, because his computer wouldn't do it and he believes no-one can possibly be better than him and he is king.

If anyone argues my wheel has magnets or is tampered with: firstly the wheel will be disassembled to show no tampering. Secondly, basic things like the timing of ball fall beep will show accuracy. Additionally there will be scatter charts and various statistical analysis. If this is really an issue, we should wait for my Mk7 Huxley wheel to arrive which is exactly the wheel currently used by my local casino, crown casino.

As for people attacking me: It happened before I publicly demonstrated anything, and it happened after public demos. Before public demos, Forester swore on his life they would never take place. After my public demos, Forester said it was probably just my family and friends that attended. To people that actually attended, Forester's comments seemed incredibly stupid. And it will happen after Lanky and Ronjo visit me too. I'm not expecting clowns like Bago to stop attacking me because they have something to lose from the truth. No matter what Lanky's opinions, some people will always attack me.  Am i aiming to shut the critics up once and for all? That's impossible. Some people are complete morons and will keep going no matter what. My aim is so that REASONABLE people will know fact from fiction.

After speaking to Lanky, it is clear he is a very straight-forward type guy. If there is bullshit, he will see though it. If something is legit, it will be clear. If for one second I believed Lanky would leave unconvinced about the accuracy of my claims, I would not be proceeding, but I am proceeding with absolute confidence because I know very well the capabilities of my technology.

On another note, if others want to attend, this is fine but I am only going to pay for Lanky's airfares/accomondation etc. Whether or not Ronjo attends depends on availability and timing. Either way everything will be filmed, although I may just publish the audio because images/video of equipment need to be censored, faces need to the blotched out etc. Besides Lanky's written opinions and the audio alone should be ample.

Quote
On another note, if others want to attend, this is fine but I am only going to pay for Lanky's airfares/accomondation etc. Whether or not Ronjo attends depends on availability and timing. Either way everything will be filmed, although I may just publish the audio because images/video of equipment need to be censored, faces need to the blotched out etc. Besides Lanky's written opinions and the audio alone should be ample.

Iwonder.

As You can see mate from the above Quote from Steve You are more then welcome to be part of this as long as You pay Your own expenses.

It will be great if we can meet up Mate…
Even more so for us if Ronjo flies in from South Africa.

Thanks for the being so gererouse with Your offer Mate.
I will certainly take you up on it Cobber.

I will be in contact with You My friend.

Lanky.

Quote
After speaking to Lanky, it is clear he is a very straight-forward type guy. If there is bullshit, he will see though it. If something is legit, it will be clear. If for one second I believed Lanky would leave unconvinced about the accuracy of my claims, I would not be proceeding, but I am proceeding with absolute confidence because I know very well the capabilities of my technology.

Hi Guys.

I spoke to Steve by phone Yesterday Wednesday the 16th of October Australian time.

This Test looks like it is going to take place the week starting with Monday the 10th November.

Now Contrary to popular belief I am not the idiot that some people may think I am.

Lets get a few things straight first.


Quote
This from Steve
“I cannot demonstrate the computers in real casinos Australia as they are illegal here. The laws specifically state that even possessing them in the gaming area is an instant $5000 fine, whether it is used or not. Actually using it is a whole lot worse.”


There is not a chance in hell that I would put Myself at risk by being in a Casino with this thing.

There would be consequences to pay if caught & I cannot afford to take that chance.

Nor could or would My good Mate Ronjo  want to be put in that position either.

Remember Ronjo sometimes plays in $25 units & bets 12 numbers at a time = $300 a spin.

He would not want to jeopardise what he does for a minute of madness.

I will not be swayed by what people find wrong with Steve .

Nor will I be influenced by Steve saying how good His things work.

I can’t afford to do that if I am to be totally impartial to both sides before the tests.

I do know a little about VB play…Ronjo knows a lot about it.

I also know a bit about Bias wheels.

I will ask Steve that the numbers spun be recorded & I will have those numbers analysed by a friend of mine to see if the wheel was Bias in any way shape or form that could have influenced the results before I report back to both Forums.

My sole aim is to find out if what Steve states is true or not.
Then both Forums will have a totally Honest & Unbiased opinion/s.

Your Friend.

Lanky.

Thanks Lanky.

Also it appears Bago is still trying to discredit me. What are you afraid of Bago? Bago refers to "players he knows" that have been unsuccessful with my system or computers. It is true that Bago is not the only player of mine to not understand what he was doing. Lack of understanding or poor application does not indicate a system or computer is not effective. I have said many times I have about 500 system and computer players (mostly system) and of course not all are going to understand what they are doing. For sure over 500 players, a few players are going to be "a couple of cans short of a six pack". Bago is one example, and unfortunately there are many in this industry. Via my player only forum, he knows of a few players that had difficulty too and that's who he refers to - after all, struggling players attend my player forum because they are struggling and need support, not because they have no troubles winning consistently and spend their time playing rather than on forums. Out of about 500 players, about 20 players attend the forum regularly. Is that saying something?

Out of 500 players, of course not every player is going to succeed. Failure is almost never due to the system, it is almost always the player. The system and/or computer is a tool, and like any tool, it requires the operator to know what they're doing. I suspect Bago is concerned he will look incompetent from this public challenge. As for anyone that claims they're doing well with my computers or systems, according to Bago they just must be me or my friends. Bago doesnt want to mention those players because it does not suit him. According to Bago, players like the one at http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial6ADGermany.wma *must* be my friends or family, because he reports having won over US$100k. There are many other such players but very few players actually permit call recording. And other people on my player forum that have stated they have won similar amounts *must* be my family & friends according to Bago.

Bago, most forum members already know the type of moron you are, but maybe they dont know you admitted to me you pretended to be me in casinos. Why, I dont know. You impersonated me on French gambling forums. You have tried to sell your own systems before - you were selling absolute rubbish, and you call me the 'SCAMMER'? You tried to take the $100k challenge with me and claimed you had a system that beat RNG. What was your system? It was waiting for a number to not spin for a while, then you bet on it. You said that eventually things would "even out" indicating you had no understanding of the house edge. Later you realized your own stupidity and claimed it was just a wild stab at the money, and that you knew your system was not effective. If you wanted to try and defraud me, couldnt you have tried with at least a plausible system from your extensive experience? I believe the real reason Bago is trying so hard to discredit me is that he knows if he is proven wrong, it indicates he is not only incompetent, but he threw away a legitimate opportunity to earn a very large income. That to me is justice for the rubbish he has spread about me - nature's very own "balance" and "unification".

Either way, Lanky you will see whatever you need to see, but if the wheel being used will be an issue, we should wait for my Mk7 Huxley wheel to arrive - we can do testing on both. Bago will say the Mk7 used voodoo magnets or something or that it wasn't in a real casino so it doesn't count. I was originally told the mk7 would arrive late October, and I'm waiting for actual dates for arrival. Perhaps to start though, I'll send you a DVD of a roulette computer test that isnt published on my web site. I'll send an email about this. It will at least get the ball rolling with validation of my claims.

[quote][Either way, Lanky you will see whatever you need to see, but if the wheel being used will be an issue, we should wait for my Mk7 Huxley wheel to arrive - we can do testing on both. Bago will say the Mk7 used voodoo magnets or something or that it wasn't in a real casino so it doesn't count. I was originally told the mk7 would arrive late October, and I'm waiting for actual dates for arrival. Perhaps to start though, I'll send you a DVD of a roulette computer test that isnt published on my web site. I'll send an email about this. It will at least get the ball rolling with validation of my claims./quote]

Hi Forum.

Steve has since contacted me by Email to which I replied with My mailing Address.

If it will help with the Test being seen as even more Impartial then I think it is a good idea to wait for the new wheel to be delivered.

I have told Steve that it would be OK but that I need a 2-3 weeks notification time frame so that I can make arrangements from My end.

OK Gang everyone is now up to date with what is happening .
If there is any thing further that develops We will keep You all posted as the test gets closer to being done.

Your Friend.

Lanky.

Quoted from Steve

I have contacted Lanky but he hasnt responded. If anyone knows him well enough, or if they know Kelly or someone else that is appropriate, please encourage them. I too would like this sorted out, but I dont have the time to go chasing it down every day. In particularly people like Kelly would only need to see some of my system material to know the system is legit, as Kelly is familiar with visual ballistics which are just a part of what I teach. I'd prefer Kelly to come as he is better known but Lanky would be welcome too. Anyone else here interested to visit me with airfares/accomodation paid? The demos will be recorded but your face of course wont be shown. I already have audio from many demos available, especially of the hybrid and each go for a few hours but before they are released I need to spend censoring the audio. With this proposed public challenge I want to make virtually all of it freely available.

Hi Steve
Have I misunderstood you,as you have said above that if  anyone interested to visit you with airfares and accomadation paid.I apologise if I have misunderstood,unfortuantly my budget will only allow me to travel in February next year.Anyway Steve I wish you all the best with your project.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Ronjo, sorry for the misunderstanding. I only agreed to pay costs for one person, but anyone can attend if they pay their own way.

Bago: in reference to your last vls post, you are acting like a complete child, as usual - throwing petty insults and typing in CAPITALS and saying 'lol' constantly. Yes I'm sure you find being embarrassed funny. You remind me of Mark sometimes, although your excuse is just being young. Most of what you ramble on about is my wheel (as if wheels like my current wheel are never found in modern casinos), but anyway perhaps you didnt read we will test on a MK7. Are you going to be explaining a successful demo to Lanky as being "dealer signature", even though it will be on a Mk7 wheel and Lanky will spin the wheel himself? Who knows, but it is certain you will never admit that you were wrong - too embarrassing for you.

As for your comments about my wealth, where do you see me bragging about it? What I earn is none of yours or anyone else's business. If I was desperate for money I would have kept your money, but I refunded you not because of your immature threats, but because I was sick and tired of wasting time with you and your childish behavior. It had nothing to do with your false claims that Mark published on his site and my requests that you have it removed, because that material was easily removed from mark's main web site - he had to remove it after I notified his host, otherwise his host would have shut his site down. It had nothing to do with your threats because a complaint to the authorities would only mean they investigate and find you didn't understand application. Yes a major drama. Anyone dishonest would be stupid to trade as a corporation, because corporations must adhere to strict conduct and accurate advertising, unlike a simple registered business or sole trader. That's why scammers dont use PTY LTD corporations. I trade as a corporation because I am both honest, and I earn sufficient levels to make a corporation worth all the extra paperwork and fees. Once a player that didnt understand anything reported me to the ACCC, saying I was a scammer. What was the end result after the ACCC's investigations? The player ended up apologizing to me. Like I said, out of about 500 players, there are of course going to be a few people like you Bago.

Regarding the primordials: from your extensive experience, you should have also recognized the primordials are what people like Laurence Scott calls a "correlation chart". Primordial 1 is specifically a procedure to find a reasonable early estimation of peaks for targeting a wheel half. You have two reference points, start and end, and the procedure can be applied to even visual ballistics. Any player that is familiar with advantage techniques would have immediately recognized the primordials and what they are. Only an ignorant or unknowledgable person like you would fail to recognize the procedure can be used with various advantage techniques beyond dealer signature, including visual ballistics. I thought even you would recognize that Bago.

Regarding the $100k challenge, again you admit to trying to scam me - it's better to do that than admit your 'special' system was complete rubbish, and that it indicated you hadn't even a basic understanding of the house edge, and legitimate methods to beat roulette. And again you claim audio testimonials like http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial6ADGermany.wma must be faked somehow. Many comments you have made about my methods indicate you really had no idea what you were doing. Dealer signature is a valid phenomena that can be exploited if present, albeit it is only one of many legitimate methods to beat roulette.

Bago, like Forester and Mark, you are a complete waste of time. Each and every one of your rubbish claims are going to be disproven to Lanky - everything from basic computer features to beating a mk7 wheel with Lanky spinning himself. Lanky will see everything with his own eyes, right down to the timing of the computer's ball fall beep. I suspect your ultimate desperate excuse to explain effectiveness will be that the tests weren't done in a real casino, as if real casino conditions can't possible be replicated elsewhere. But you go ahead and continue the attacks if it makes you feel better. At the end of the day, Lanky will see with his own eyes that you really dont know what you're talking about.

Any adult in your situation Bago would have a "we'll see" attitude about Lanky's visit. But Bago, you come straight out of the gates and attacked me. Why? Because a successful demo to Lanky will embarrass you, and make you look incompetent. Thats too bad - grow up. But if it makes you feel better, prepare your list of excuses Bago.

Hi Forum.

This was from Kelly over on Victor's Forum.

Lanky:

What is it exactly Steve is going to show ? What will be the MO for convincing the people present ?

Since I ain`t going I can tell you though what I would note from the spins apart from comparing his predictions with my own predictions.

1. Wheel speed.
2. Predicted number.
3. Strike number and strike diamond.
4. Top/middle/bottom strike of diamond.
5. Final number.

If I get these data, I can make a model that relates prediction, scatter and outcome into a model where we see amount of lucky hits and predicted hits and the tilt level of the wheel and also the scatter.

There are several scenarios. He might produce a session with hardly no hits, but actually good predictions but bad luck. Or vice versa, poor predictions and lots of lucky strikes. Or something in between. From the data above, you can mix and cross match a lot ot things and get some surprising but straight forward information. The downside is, that it actually takes quite an amount of data to build a proper model and people usually gets careless and bored during such a session and misses the strike number, (Strike Number is the number passing below the diamond as the balls strikes this diamond).

A simple prediction versus outcome number gives a very weak analyse. You can make a simple cross scheme where you have P as the predicted number and the outcome number as "+3" meaning it landed 3 pockets from prediction. That IS a part of the analyse, but only a fraction.

Now, as I would rather NOT be involved with ANY of the computer vendors on the scene I would rather stay absoloutely out of it. The history of the 3 vendors is long and filled with mudthrowing and web spamming against each other. I won`t be a part of that.

But feel free to ask if you have a question or you need something to look for.

My Reply to Kelly's Post.

Hi Kelly.

Mate this is a quote from Steve on His Forum.


Quote
In particularly people like Kelly would only need to see some of my system material to know the system is legit, as Kelly is familiar with visual ballistics which are just a part of what I teach. I'd prefer Kelly to come as he is better known but Lanky would be welcome too.

As You can see He wanted You as the main Tester & I could attend if I wanted to.

Kelly I am quite happy to stand aside for Either You or Victor to be the one that gets their Expenses paid to do this with Steve.

You are both  much more experienced with this type of advantage play then I am.

If You or Victor takes Steve up on it I will play a backseat roll to You or Victor & I will pay My own expenses to get there.

It would be great if We could Meet.

Your Friend.

Lanky.  

Lanky, I read on VLS that Kelly doesn't want to get involved. Thats ok. My primary goal for arranging all this is to dispel myths and absolute rubbish from various people like Mark Howe, Forester, and the occasional 'young' player like Bago who didn't understand what they were doing. You dont need to be a roulette guru to know fact from fiction if you see me in person - you'll see everything you need with your own eyes. Ultimately the ideal person needs to be well known on forums, with at least a moderate knowledge of roulette so you understand concepts I'll present you with. Most of all, the ideal person needs to be trusted by others, which is why you fit the bill.

There are many examples of 'dispelling myths' but one is: you'll see Forester's different diamond test, and you'll see the results are quite the opposite to what Forester claims my computer achieves. You'll also see how my 'paper system' works - of course not all of it (not even players see that), but more than enough for you to know it is legitimately effective. If you understand enough about roulette, shortly after explaining what my methods consist of, it should be quite clear my methods are legitimate. Many of the principles will not need demonstration, only some may depending on your level of experience.

I plan to publish an itinerary of what we'll cover, which includes very specific false claims to refute. Any reasonable person would know who has been lying, and who has been honest. I don't aim to humiliate anyone who spread false information, for whatever reason. My only intention is to let the truth be known.

PS - Someone on VLS asked how a computer can be used wrong. Well you can test on a PC's skipping DVD player as Bago did (he ignored my advice not to do this), you can use the wrong settings for different types of ball deceleration, you can completely misunderstand how a feature is used, and the list goes on. The computer is just a tool and nothing more, and it needs correct use.

Bago:

It still amazes me how you attack me so frantically - as if you have something to lose from this challenge, like perhaps your credibility. A few of my players are reading these posts and email me support and encouragement, but they stay out of discussions and adhere to contracts. You are not alone though: people like Forester and Mark are in your boat. One way or another, truth eventually comes out. Eventually, you are going to know undoubtedly you were wrong (you probably know this already), but of course you aren't going to admit it, and neither with Forester and Mark because it'd be too embarrassing. Like it or not, I have no doubts it is inevitable. If you find that difficult to cope with, you have a lot of growing up to do. You being wrong also means you threw away an opportunity to be financially set for life, especially at your young age. So of course you dont want to believe you threw it away - this is what you are defending against too. I suspect your attacks actually have little to do with whether or not I accurately represent my products.

1. We already said we'll test on a mk7 huxley, that Lanky can inspect and spin it all he wants, and you're still going on about the same stuff?? So much for your 'dealer signature' attacks Bago.

2. You have referred to a player that had troubles. If a player submits 20,000 spins, it is spins from somewhere like http://www.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/EN/622/PermanenzenArchiv.php where they have no way to verify the wheel hasn't changed. In such a case, play is not possible. Also you ignore the other players that have won hundreds of thousands because it's not convenient for you. You just dismiss them claiming they *must* be fake testimonials - an example is http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial6ADGermany.wma - If you really dont believe there are about 500 players, that's too bad I really dont care about that point. Just because you failed to succeed does not mean other players are not competent enough to succeed. You didnt understand some of the most basic principles Tony, as you showed with your attempt to cheat me with the $100k challenge and your terrible system (the system you claim you knew was inneffective). Do you even know what the house edge is? You didn't buy my system and you showed no trustworthiness, so I never taught you anything beyond the very basics, although you didnt even understand them - you still dont. When I said you should call me for support, you refused saying you didnt speak english well enough. It's common that players with english as a second language are generally not as successful. I always say communication with me is the major factor which determines level of success. All you knew about my system is the basics of primordial (correlation) charting - thats all. You never knew anything else and it showed. As for the computer, only an idiot would apply a timing device on a skipping DVD then claim the computer isnt working - isnt that what you did Tony? You did and said a lot of things that showed you really had no idea what you were doing, but you refused to listen. Even the context you referred to features were plain wrong and showed you had no idea.

3. You still dont seem to understand what a primordial chart is. Yes it is a chart between two reference points, that's why it's called primordial. I thought even you with your limited knowledge would know how it was used. It is a multipurpose chart that is used for various advantage techniques, including computers and visual ballistics.

4. No serious player plays online. Some players start out online, then focus on real casinos when they see results. The players that play full time have winnings that vary from $100 - $2000 or so per week and it varies, but some have done much better in a series of big hits before moving accounts ($10,000+ per session). Some players have been banned after even small amounts, and although there are numerous methods to avoid detection, play in real casinos is overall much better and I generally advise against online play.

5.  Custom variants have different pattern types. Some are affected by wheel speed, and some are not. Some are even helped by faster wheel speeds because there is more wheel rotor and ball interaction. You dont appear to have the vaguest idea how often more ball-rotor interaction can be better. Custom variants can use anywhere from 1 to 9 patterns, so whether or not they are affected by wheel speed depends on the patterns used. I intend to cover the basics of at least the first 3 pattern types of custom variants with Lanky.

6. It would take a few days to play a statistically relevant amount of spins in a real casino. Real casino conditions will be simulated. Tony do you mean to say we cannot possibly accurately simulate real casino spins? Is that really going to be your final excuse? The only difference will be frequency of spins - in a controlled environment, we can spin every 30 seconds. In casinos, that may be about 2 minutes. The ball, the wheel and spins are exactly the same. However, there will be video of the spins so you can criticize them one by one all you like and make an idiot of yourself. You can pick the spins where I used an invisible magic voodoo magnet ok?

7. I see you are growing your list of possible excuses, like that I might spray sticky stuff on a wheel sector. How ridiculous. A bias is over thousands of spins and predictions will clearly be in different sectors. And I already explained Lanky will inspect the wheel carefully. I also already said Lanky can spin all he wants. I'll also give Lanky the choice of many balls, and I guess I'll just have to hope he chooses the one with the magnet ok?

8. I am not going to travel overseas for a simple demo. Roulette computers are not allowed in Australian casinos, and a demo of the system in real casinos would take a few days to cover enough spins to be statistically significant. With the video of the wheel, any reasonable person would plainly see the spins are on a wheel that is identical to ones being used in countless casinos.

9. The beep you are probably referring to is the beep when you click the button to take timings. The beep is not to establish accurate timings, it is to let you know a click was registered. You constantly show you really have no idea. The delay is to do with using the core timers of the mobile phone vs software beeps. I believe Barnett does the same thing with his mobile phones, but there are different ways of doing it. I dont expect you to understand it. After the last click, the audio prediction is announced virtually instantly - of course Lanky will see this too. You never had a version with a ball fall beep in play mode. The ball fall beep is right on target, and thats the one that counts. As for your claim that because of human error in timings, accurate predictions arent possible, again this point will be thoroughly covered with Lanky who will very clearly see how wrong you are. This will be a critical part for Lanky to see so he and everyone knows what a stupid false claim it was.

10. You claim my custom variant software doesnt exist. Ok, I'll show that to Lanky too. See what I mean when I say you have no idea what you're talking about?

11. Why dont casinos shut down if roulette is beatable? Because for 1 winner, there are about 1,000 losers. That was a hard point to address.

Tony, your posts seem like desperate attacks to save your embarassment - nothing constructive. You are not fighting against me, you are fighting to save your credibility and to save embarassment which is why you are fighting so hard. In the clearest language possible, Tony you are just a child. Sorry but I cant be bothered playing games with someone that has the maturity of a 13 year old.

The wheel will be mk7, same ball as casinos, everything will be the same. You will see the video of the actual spins and that the wheel is balanced, you'll see the inspection of the wheel, everything. Lanky will spin all he wants - it wont make any difference.

Why dont we just see what Lanky finds? Of course then you'll go on and on about Lanky *must* have been drunk, or that I used voodoo or mind control because you just couldnt possibly just plain be wrong, right Tony? Anything but god forbid that you were actually wrong, right Bago? I suppose I could just tell you to grow up, but it never worked before. I have no intention of continuing this discussion with you or addressing every pathetic point, and we'll just let Lanky make up his own mind. He's a grown man and wasn't born yesterday. Bago perhaps go back to selling your own systems on ebay and impersonating me on forums and in casinos like you did. I suggest a better system to what you were selling though. A bit of free advice for you Bago: the worst lie you can make is to yourself. When you are wrong, you should admit it like a man, not run and hide making every excuse in the book like a coward. As for this challenge, in the end, any reasonable person can decide for themselves based on what Lanky reports.

Regarding Bago's latest idiotic post on VLS:

Bago: You are a complete idiot. I'll let Lanky address the distorted points you made about the computer. I'll be compiling a list of your rubbish claims for Lanky and I to cover one by one. We'll cover everything. To defend yourself you'll most likely end up attacking Lanky's credibility and competence. You may even say rubbish like I bribed him. You may also say the spins were not in real casinos so they shouldnt count, but you will also have to explain the videos of the demo with Lanky too, where you will see spins yourself. You will of course try to refute the proof, but given the clarity of the proof, you'll look like a moron. God knows what excuses Mark and Forester will make. Mark has already claimed I must be using HIS computers in successful demos. Actually I demonstrated his rubbish many times so people can see how poor it is. Truly his latest computer looks like something he made himself in a few hours - it is very clearly a scam, not just a bad product. That's why the original purchaser gave it to me for free and bought my computer, and is now happy. Mark's other computer was better but still terrible. Forester has been going on and on about mobile phones and their aparant inability to take accurate timings, which is so easy to disprove. I even have numerous PIC models but they have too many limitations. Forester may have only recently heard how accurate timings are achieved on mobile phones from Barnett, but Forester turned against anything Barnett said when he released the negative report on Forester's device - before that report, according to Forester, Barnett was the roulette king but now is incompetent.

As for my residential property, did you think publishing an address (2 warrior crt) would upset me? That's why you published it, right? How adult-like Bago. Your first mistake is listening to Mark Howe about my personal details. Stevenhourmouzis.com is from mark howe, a competitor who is so full of it many of us believe he is literally mentally ill. Not long ago he was claiming I still lived with my parents and that we all lived in a poor urban area right next to a hostel for homeless people. Didnt you know Mark is not renowned for accurate information? Yes 2 warrior crt is one of my properties. How did Mark know that? He said he paid private investigators. The truth? He cant afford private investigators - he emailed my wife under a friend's name (via facebook) and said he wanted to send a present (we only just saw this friend a few days earlier and knew it wasn't really her, especially since she was claiming she was overseas), and we never release our residential address. We released the rental property address which has a mail redirection service. I am not even on the electoral role, and my home address is not even on my drivers license due to special privellages that I wont discuss. Mark initially claimed he'd won the lottery and wanted my bank statements because he wanted to share the winnings. As if I was going to send them. I was tempted though because it would embarrass him and be an extra criminal charge against mark - obtaining financial information deceptively. Later Mark changed his mind then claimed he was actually a prostitute that I was apparently sleeping with, and claimed to my wife that she gave me an STD that caused a birth abnormality in my son, and that she should be tested for STDs, and apparently I spend all my money on prostitutes. He also emailed me directly saying that my son wasnt really mine, and is the result of an affiar my wife had. I know that is a complete contradiction - that's how clumsy Mark's lies are. It goes on and on. It was incredibly twisted, which is what I suppose you expect from sick people like Mark. He desperately wants to hurt me or anyone close to me because that might be hurting me too. He even tried telling me he has 24hr video surveillance on my house, and video of me in it, and my cars, that he's spoken my my neighbours etc when I dont even live there. What an absolute idiot he makes of himself, just like you Bago. The man is an absolute.. well, I dont know what you call it - he's absolutely pathetic, but he's only one of many people like you Bago who have something to lose from me being honest. As already explained, you are protecting an ego - a precious thing for a young man. Anyway Mark has been reported to the police, for various other reasons too including death threats - honestly the guy is even more screwed up than you bago - he acts worse than you but is twice your age (hard to believe some people are that screwed - how do they function?). Mark is in serious trouble, but unfortunately due process takes time. In the police report I included some details of my income and assets. Why? So when the police read the crap Mark wrote, they would know how full of it he was. It's all at http://www.genuinewinner.com/markhowe.htm - the information I supplied was regarding one of numerous income sources - one alone being over $400k profit per year, not turnover but profit, and some assets were disclosed being for 'multiple millions'. I did not include additional income source or superannuation funds because my point was made. Exact figures of my worth are not your business. Roulette is only a part of what I do. People like you and Mark cant seem  to handle my success and I'd just love to show you photos of my home, but thats not your business either. But anyway, regarding 2 warrior crt - I use a mail forwarding service from this rental property. How do you know it is a rental property? See http://www.roulettecomputers.com/rent.jpg and no, I dont pay myself rent. It's ok Bago, you must be used to looking like an idiot by now.

On the issue of ball scatter, I have personally achieved close to 1 in 15 hit rates on starburst wheels with my standard computer. You really dont know what you are talking about. Anyone that says it is impossible doesn't know the full story. Perhaps it is nature to criticize things you dont understand. In your case Bago, perhaps you are too inexperienced to understand the ball bounces differently with different wheel speeds. The effect is not usually linear, and my computer deals with this too.

I dont know how many idiotic statements you can make Bago. Really I could spend all day picking apart your stupid comments, but I have much more important things to do that quarrel with an immature brat stomping his feet. Lanky's visit will make things perfectly clear. I wish you all the best Bago. Make all the bullshit statements you want, but sooner or later the truth comes out, and too bad if the truth makes you look incompetent.

Hi Forum.

Iwonder & I spoke on the phone for 2 hrs+ Yesterday about the upcoming Challenge.

He is a great bloke with no BS in Him.

He is a very hard working successful Family man that works long hours.

Seeing as though it looks like Ronjo won't be coming Iwonder agreed to participate in it with Me.

He has agreed as I have that it can be filmed as long as there is no face shots.
(although in my case it would be good to hang over the Fireplace to scare the Children away from it)

I think this is the best course of action as that way it can then be seen as be being totally impartial Report back to Both Forums by the Two of us.

And seeing as it would involve about 4 hrs per day Iwonder would prefer that the Challenge took place on Sunday & Monday as that would help Him with His Work & Family Commitments.

I have agreed to this as well as long as it can be arranged by Steve on those days.
If not then it will have to be on other Days.

We will await Your reply on this Steve.

OK so now everyone is up to date with what is going to happen in the future.


Your Friend.

Lanky.

Hi Lanky, thanks.

1. I dont mind people knowing I'm sending you a roulette computer for testing, just as long as you dont reveal the details of it to anyone. You are probably going to have quite a few people that will contact you to suss out information, but you must keep answers direct and brief - even better perhaps you can write a summary of findings and leave it at that - this way, no accidental leak would occur. We can sort our how we should present your findings later - in a way that gives enough information, but not too much. People like Mark Howe will probably try to suss out information under fake names. For example, with the different diamond test, by all means state how close predictions were to each other and how many seconds before the ball falls were predictions made - this says nothing about features though. You can also verify that I didnt just send you a computer loaded with only a few numbers, like Forester said I probably did in my video demos because he didn't want to believe he's wrong. Sorry Forester, you and the people you have lied to (and they believed you) are in for a surprise.

2. No problems with Iwonder. As per my email I'd just like to speak with him first. Iwonder please contact me via email and specify your phone and best time(s) to call.

3. Sunday-Monday is fine, I'm flexible.

To everyone following this: I'm still waiting for word about exactly when my Huxley Mk7 wheel will arrive. We need the new wheel for the in-person demos, and we cant make Lanky's bookings until the wheel is sorted out. So for now, I'm sending a computer to Lanky so he can test and report back. I have no doubt what Lanky will report will be enough to convince many people already, but this is just the first part. I'm not jumping the gun with your opinions Lanky, I am just confident with my computer.

On a final note, I'm really very pleased to be doing this and it should have been done a long time ago. Unfortunately many of you believed blatant lies about me, from others who put egos and business before truth. \Those that know me here but prefer to stay out of it are right to do so. Arguments lead to unintentional release of secrets and you are best to just get on with the job. Also Kelly, rest assured while I'm spending time on all this, my players are out making money. You can make a lot more with teams than just playing by yourself. Speaking of which, always looking for more partners (serious players): http://www.roulettecomputers.com/partners.html

It appears Mark Howe is now posting at VLS under fake names. He's clearly not wanting this challenge to proceed and is trying everything possible. He is obviously "John" on VLS going on about the fact that I have a conviction against my name. It is all explained in detail at http://www.genuinewinner.com/rentech.htm - how is it relevant to my company, my technology and the competence of my staff? It's not. When you lie about my technology, you are also lying about my staff who are extremely good at what they do. I supect Moccoman is also Mark Howe. After his prepared speech about how I'm a con man, he said:

Quoted Text

"So Lanky, you should be "pulling the pin" on this real quick and don't get conned by his smooth talking."

What are you afraid of Mark? Is claiming I'm just a "smooth talker" really how you explain obvious truth I state? If all the rubbish you've said about me is true, then wouldn't this challenge only help you? Yes I'll show Lanky your computer too, but that's not why he's coming. I dont think there's a person on any of the forums that doesn't know about the Rentech case but it is not going to stop validation of your competitor's technology. What's next Mark? Do you suggest that when Lanky receives the free test computer I'm sending him, he should he just promptly return it? Of course you are afraid of what he'll find.

Kelly, you said:

Quoted Text

"The Cammegh wheel has at a certain speed an effect that causes the ball to stick at the strike number. 0.05 sec. slower or faster, the ball will just travel on past the strike number."

Correct Kelly. Every wheel tends to have at least one "sweet speed range". My computers can isolate to specific wheel speeds, or give the optimal prediction for the specific wheel speed. Idiots like Bago and Forester claim it doesnt deal with different wheel speed which is completely backwards. Sure my computers can use the standard scatter graph too, but it is nowhere near as 'capable'. Without it, as with Mark's and Forester's computer, on many wheels you would get near random predictions, as Barnett found with Forester's computer (and this is assuming the computer correctly predicts rotor strike point). Forester's computer doesnt even have an in-built scatter chart. Forester's computer doesn't even correctly predict the rotor strike point - he does an estimation based on when a ball speed is reached which is not good enough for many wheels. Even the estimation is often not good enough because no wheel is perfectly level. According to Forester, the zaps were best, of course until he made FFA - Forester claims whatever he is doing is best... until he changes it. There are many problems with Forester's computers and I could go on forever. He is so egotistical that truth goes out the window. Kelly if you saw what my computers do, you would understand just how full of it people like Bago and Forester are.

Now as for Bago, I know you are young but your personality is bordering on a sociopath - not everyone on the forums know you as well as I do. You are disliked on forums because of your poor and very immature attitude. Is it plain immaturity or an actual mental condition, who knows but you often sound an awful lot like Mark Howe. A few of your points are addressed below:

Quoted Text

The test would be on 300 spins with no differenciation between wheel speeds, we only note what number is below the striked diamond or the number striked directly by the ball, and the final number. Why this test little moron?. Because Stefano's computer does not deal with different wheel speeds. Why? Because it has only one jump graph (ball scatter) whatever the wheel speed you clocked. If the wheel speed is at 2sec or at 6sec, and you get the predict 10, enter the final outcome, let's say Zero, then in your graph you will have a bar chart at +18. Stefano's computer does not have any accuracy to determine ball scatter from one precise wheel speed, it MIX them, exactly as my test. And again, my test would show a BEST 1 in 25 hit rate if you would have played the peak on modern level wheels, AND WITH 100% ACCURACY OF KNOWING WHERE THE BALL STRIKES THE ROTOR!.
So it is impossible with a button switch used by a human to achieve a 1 in 15 hit rate on modern wheels. This is a very big lie, we smell the affiliate promotor who wants to catch fishes who do not know the game.

Actually Bago, you can isolate wheel speed if you like which is a feature that has always been there, or you can use the feature that selects the optimal prediction based on wheel speed at ball fall time - it can be set automatically or manually. 1 in 15 on a Starburst is certainly not out of the question. Really I dont know how many times you can make an idiot of yourself.

Quoted Text

Oh and should I add a big proof from his ebook instruction that Stefano's computer is completely obsolete when wheel speed varies like in Casino environment? "You should ideally not use more than TEN values. This is because the smaller the wheel speed range, the more spins that are rejected, but the better the scatter pattern will be, and the more accurate predictions will be. What does it mean? It means that Stefano judges that using more than TEN values in the wheel samples would give completely random predictions. If the computer would have been accurate with wider wheel samples, he would have said: use not more than 20 wheel samples, but no, he wrote TEN. Let's see what is the wheel speed interval when you are using TEN values: Let's take a wheel speed that is very common in Casinos, 3sec:
3000-3000-3033-3033-3100-3100-3167-3167-3200-3267 That's it, you are playing with a wheel speed that must be between 3sec and let's say 3,3sec, otherwise, every predictions are rejected. That's how Stefano instructs you on how to apply the computer successfully. I guess he never played in a real Casino with it, because if he did, he would have never wrote this. Tightening to this point, you will get a 1 in 10 predictions. Let's say you are using the computer for 8 hours in the Casino, 40 spins an hour, 320 spins in 8 hours, you will have at the end of the qualification (meaning to know the ball offset comparing to prediction only possible with an EARPIECE), you will have 32 values in your ball jump graph. WOW."

Bago, what about this are you finding difficult? Let's say you had a wheel that spun 3000 - 4000MS per revolution, and using 10 values you isolated to 3000 - 3500MS. That would mean you get predictions about half the time, but when you get them, they are more accurate. Do you really want to use the computer on EVERY spin, or is that just stupid and likely to get you noticed by casino staff? But let's say you wanted to get 100% of predictions - simply use a larger range. Wow, that was really, really hard. Fair enough if you cant understand more complex features, but you didn't even understand this extremely basic feature.

Now let's say you wanted to get more predictions but rotor speed was critical - ie if you didnt want to isolate wheel speeds, and you wanted the computer to find the relationship between strike point on the rotor, wheel speed and offset - the computer does that either manually or automatically. But there's something else before that - the ball is not necessarily going to strike the rotor where the ball reaches a certain speed. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about - or maybe you do, but just don't have the honesty to admit you were wrong. Even so, being a "grown-up" means putting the truth before being "right", but you remind me of a child stomping his feet.

Quoted Text

I don't care at all if your are the owner of this small house, or another owner is renting it to you, or you rent yourself this house. It really does not change the fact that you are not a multi-millionnaire in assets or making 400,000$/year. Thanks for the page though, it shows that this house is rented for 450$/month, as if a multi-millionnaire would buy this sort of small houses and make only 450$ a month, what a joke.

If you didn't care, then why publish it in your post? Because you tried to embarrass me, but only embarrassed yourself so now you backpedal and say you don't care. Also Bago, it is $450 per WEEK, not month, which is at the upper end of the scale for rental properties. How many properties do you own Bago, or do you still live with your parents? Actually not that it's relevant, I earn more than the stated figure - as I said it was only one revenue source. Good for you if you find it difficult to accept I dont care.

As for your dealer signature claims, YES dealer signature is part of what I teach. But as Theo pointed out it is only one of the modules, and I advise against using it because there are better ways to beat roulette. You never had the other modules because you never bought my system Bago. Other modules also cover VB with a stopwatch, thumpers etc not that you had any idea about it. All you had about my system was a free pdf that is floating around and that's all you were ever going to get because you are incredibly far from a trustworthy person. I'll cover all this with Lanky anyway.

Bago, I'm really done responding to your stupid comments. You are progressively getting angrier and more aggressive each time I correct you. Every time you post absolute rubbish indicating you really dont know what you are talking about. Even Kelly recognized how you twisted information and said "This is just another example of how you can twist a correct example into something negative.". I'm not sure if you are genuinely stupid, or just latching onto anything you can use to manipulate people. I think it is actually a combination of both. Do you have any concept of how much your own stupidity has cost you? Obviously not. Bago, the bottom line here is Lanky is going to see it all for himself. People are going to take his word over yours.

PS - Bago you signed your post:

Quoted Text

LOLOLOL. Bago, the truth exposer at your service.

My word, you are a complete utter dickhead Tony - that's the best way I can describe you and we really should say it as it is. It is not just your age because I know many people your age, and they don't act anywhere near like you. I'm really looking forward to this challenge. When people on forums constantly type rubbish like "LOLOLOL", such people don't usually have anything valuable to offer - just like Mark Howe - I think he wore out the L and O keys on his keyboard. Being embarrassed will not make you laugh Bago, and typing LOL wont convince people otherwise. Sorry if you are being made a fool out of, but you really did bring it on yourself. When I embarrassed Mark, it was not intentional - I was just defending myself. It only made him try harder, and it ended up embarrassing him more - he just didn't know when to quit and kept trying to get the better of me. Mark ended up accusing me of ruining his life but like I told him, he did it all himself - all I did was defend myself. I'm not interested in attacking anyone, just making truth known, and if that embarrasses people for lies they've told, too bad, it is not my doing. I have tried to make peace with you, Forester and even Mark, but all three of you are complete dickheads who are not interested in the truth.

Quoted Text

I am exposing you so easily and freely that you can't stand it so you need to lie more and more, saying ridiculous statements that make everyone laugh?

Who's "everyone"? You and Mark's 101 fake names? The fact is most "reasonable" people, even those that are skeptical after all the rubbish that has been spread by morons, probably appreciate that I'm stepping forward for an honest validation of my claims. I dont need to do this, but I want the truth to be known. The reason you and Mark are attacking me for merely stepping forward are varied. You both have something to lose from me being honest. As was said previously, instead of having a "we will see" attitude like the adults here, you attack me like a child. Mark is even trying to convince Lanky to avoid visiting me which is needless to say pathetic and cowardly. I suggest everyone that has lied about me cop it on the chin and take it like a man, which includes you Bago, Forester, Forester's blind followers who actually believed him, players I've banned and wanted revenge, Mark, and his 101 fake names. Coolpaddy said it well as below:

Quoted Text

Bago, You are just a very angry individual - your use of foul language, lies and insults to, and about myself and those other members interested in the truth betrays your lack of real conviction. Steve is willing to have his system tested by a real expert. That is what this challenge is all about. There is real confidence and courage in his initiative. You are sadly lacking in both of those qualities.

Thankyou Coolpaddy.

Lanky, I'll send you the computer today or tomorrow. The instructions are being updated and should be finished by the time you receive the computer.

Lanky, the computer is on it's way sent overnight express, so will be there tomorrow. Have a play around with it at your leisure and get back to me.

How will you present the results, a 5 hour a test video?

Vincent, what results do you mean? There will be a lot of different parts to validations of my claims. We'll just take it as it comes. Something like a 5 hour video test is INSUFFICIENT proof. Why insufficient? Because success or failure can be put down to luck. For any effective "test", it needs to be over a larger amount of spins. So how is this remedied? A few ways, but mainly validation of the actual working principles, and details of exactly where the player gets their edge. As just one example, I will explain and demonstrate how at least three of the custom variant patterns occur. Lanky and Iwonder of course wont see 'everything' (not even my players see 'everything'), but they'll see more than enough to know whether I actually know what I'm talking about, or if I'm plain full of it.

If you mean specifically how results will be presented so everyone knows fact vs fiction, that is yet to be decided but we'll have at least:

1. Statements from Lanky and Iwonder that will address numerous claims from people like Forester, Bago and Mark Howe. Then people can see just how 'liar liar pants on fire' these people are.

2. Video/audio of the meeting with Lanky and Iwonder.

I wont need to demonstrate Howe's and Foresters computers and explain the limitations, and compare them to my computers, but I will anyway. Mark Howe's computer is absolutely pathetic - it is very clearly a scam. Forester's computer has merit, but has a lot of major problems he either lies about, or really just doesn't know. We're not going to spend much time on them though.

Regarding validations, as it turns out, we're starting with just sending a computer for testing to Lanky.

Additionally, I just spoke to Iwonder (the other person who will meet me), and I'm sending him a computer too. The main claim I want Lanky and Iwonder to validate is: when testing the computer on the same spin repeatedly, after the initial sample, virtually all predictions are within a 6 pocket arc. Once the computer has fully learned the ball, virtually all predictions are within a 3 pocket arc. On the occasional spin, a prediction will be outside the arcs for reasons like a few bad clicks, but they'll at least be very close to within the arc. Once this is validated, then all of Forester's claims are clearly refuted. Also Bago's (Tony) claims will be refuted too, and since Mark Howe just copies what Bago and Forester says, his false claims will be refuted too. Such a simple test, and a simple principle, but it has very big implications. Who knows what these three will say as an excuse. Bago has already said rubbish like I'll probably bribe them. Forester has said I would probably just load the phone with only a few numbers which is just as stupid, because Lanky and Iwonder were not born yesterday and can do whatever tests they want.

To Forester, Mark and Bago, I have no intentions of embarrassing you, only clearing my name of your, well, bullshit claims. Anyway so it's all starting with the roulette computer, but we'll cover the roulette system (no electronics) in time too. Validation of the system is a bit more involved though, and that is best done in person. Of course the computers will be covered again in person, and it will be filmed (video/audio) will be free to download.

Hi Forum.

Its 4.pm Thursday here now.

I have just recieved the package. (no instruction etc)

I may be busy for th next day or two and won't be able to test this thing yet.
But by Sat or Sun everything should be OK.

Steve ring Me please so I can get this thing to charge stage.

Lanky.

Ps..I have no interest in what Mr.Howe or Mr.Forrester does or has.(I am not there to test their things)
As far as I am concerned this will be strictly about what Steve has or does not have that works or does not work.

Lanky, I emailed you the instructions. Check your PM.

Hi Steve.

We have a problem.

Read Your Pm Mate.

Lanky.

Oops. check pm. Should be fine now. If you need anything else we may need to chat monday if still needed.

Hi Steve.

More problems.

Check You Pm Again.

Lanky

Hi Lanky no problem I can send you one but any will do. Let me know and I can send tomorrow if needed.

Hi Steve.

No it sweet I just  found one.......as was just put in Your Pm.

Lanky.

Ok phew, also if the code is requested, pls email it me today so you can have it unlocked for the weekend. Some of the features are easily understood but you may need to ask questions about the others. Depending on the dvd you have and the wheel (the one you have, not what I sent you), you may need advice on suitable settings. If it's just bob gordon's then basically same settings as my wheel, except predictions need to be later because some of the ball spins are too slow. The main thing I want you to verify is my claim about the 6 pocket arc, then 3 pocket arc. You can start on 3 pocket arc even if your initial sample is good, but usually for that kind of accuracy the computer needs to learn the wheel a bit better first. Almost all predictions should be within those arcs. People including Bago, Forester and Howe all lie and say the predictions are virtually random - even with quite bad clicks you'll see thats not the case. Forester and Howe have never seen the computer but Bago has - he just used a skipping dvd player. This part alone refutes over 90% of the false claims about it. The instructions have the settings for the test dvd already though. Have fun with it.

Also there are number of other false claims you need to look at. I'll send you a list some time next week. Another example is Forester says that the delay for the prediction to be announced is about a second - his argument was that microprocessors are better, because that's what he sells. See if you notice the huge 1 second delay like forester claims. Anyway you'll see from the list I'll send you who has been lying, and who just didnt have any idea what they were doing. But as per previous post, the main false claim is that predictions are virtually random and that mobile phones cannot possibly produce accurate predictions. As for the system, that'll all be in time too.

How would i know that you and your friends does not lie?
You can easily fake the whole thing.

Vincent, I do not know Lanky and Iwonder. The idea is to have well known forum members, who many know well are not me and do not have affiliation with me. It makes no sense to choose a random forum member that no-one knows. While you may not know Lanky and Iwonder, many others do and they trust what they have to say.

What about you bribe Iwonder and Lanky, to fake the whole thing. I am not convinced until you post a "bulletproof" testreport.
Have you received your huxley get?

Vincent, the video of my meeting with Iwonder and Lanky will be made public. You will see at least the demonstration component. I can't bribe a roulette wheel. As for bribing Iwonder and Lanky, if you're concerned about that, then you can either attend yourself or encourage someone you know and trust to attend. I've done demonstrations to many people, often 15+ people at a time. The problem is such people are not well known on forums. Lanky and Iwonder are, which is why they are attending. At the end of it all, review everything and decide if I'm either honest and my claims are accurate, or if I just bribed them.

As for the new wheel, it will be shipped to me shortly. Due to the delay regarding the wheel, we're starting everything off with me sending computers to both Lanky and Iwonder. For many people, this and initial opinions of Lanky and Iwonder will be evidence enough, but like I've said, this is just the first part of validation of my claims.

@Steve./Forum.

Here is where we are at now.

I am waiting for Iwonder to receive his package then we will both set them up together off Steve's Website.
That way we will both know that we have the same settings.

@ Steve .
Just send the package that I have to Iwonder

Other  then that Don't send us any more Stuff mate.

We don't want anything more then what we have already.....This is not a Job...its a test on Your things.
We are not the slightest bit interested in what other people have or don't have.
When we have both packages set up we will contact You to make sure all is right.
Then You can talk to us by phone to verify it is.

You will have a time frame to do this which will be posted here.
Failure by You to call in that time will result in both packages being sent back to You & everything will then be Cancelled.

@ Vincent.

Mate I have met 3 people in person from Both the Forums.
Here are the names & the links to those meetings Mate.

Meeting with Digf on the 13t h November 2007.......Who is both a Member here & Vls and is retired
http://www.rouletteforum.net/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1195201517/s-new/

Met Lanky At Casino Today.  on: March 25, 2008 By Natural9 who is both a Member here & @ Vls who owns His own Business
http://vlsroulette.com/general-board/met-lanky-at-casino-today/

Lanky meets Moccoman. on: September 17, 2008, Who is a Member at Vls ...Not sure about here...who owns His own Business
http://vlsroulette.com/general-board/lanky-meets-moccoman/  

Vincent I can assure You that Iwonder & I are doing Testing for the reason that once & for all both Forums will have impartial Reports done by us both.

If Steve's Methods /Computers etc don't work we will post that as well....Steve knows This.,..

Another precaution we are taking is that the numbers spun when we are with Steve will be recorded and sent to a friend of mine that will determine if the wheel is Bias or not or is influenced by the wheel in anyway.<<<This will have to take place before Iwonder & I will report back to both Forums.

Vincent if You are still not convinced with the evidence that I have put here & You live in NSW You/We can arrange to meet eachother.
If You live in Victoria We/You can arrange a meeting with Iwonder.

Lanky.

Lanky, I'll send to Iwonder early this upcoming week. I know this is not a job, and I'm not expecting you two to spend days and days on this. What I'm asking you to do should about 15 minutes for a test on the test dvd, plus the play dvd which is a bit over an hour although this is optional, as is any testing you do on your own dvd. You may take a bit of extra time to get used to the clicking to level where accuracy is at least reasonable. As I said the main part I want you to verify about the computer is about the 6 then 3 pocket arc because it focuses on almost all of the false claims about it, such as the false claims that predictions are random, mobile phones arent fast enough, there's a huge 1 second delay for predictions to be announced etc etc. The only reason I sent it to you is because of the delay with the new wheel, and I wanted to get the ball rolling as stated earlier. Anyway you dont need Iwonder to do the simple test, but if you prefer to do it that way you can wait.

Stefano!

May I ask what did you send to Lanky? Is it old Nokia mobil phone with old or a NEW program?
Old prog. sucks!!!

Franky, dont know who you are and dont much care. Obviously someone threatened by this challenge - there are many of you, take your pick. Either way you have to hide under a fake name. Why? Perhaps scared of being embarrassed. Take it elsewhere my friend.

I now have Iwonder's shipping address. I'll be out today due to melbourne cup day so will ship tomorrow, and Iwonder will have the computer Thursday.

Steve, can i test your genuinewinner?

Hello Vincent

In response to your post of 31 Oct      [How would i know that you and your friends does not lie?
You can easily fake the whole thing.]

I have never had any dealings with Steve Hourmouzis or Iwonder, but I have met Lanky and his lovely wife Nancy in Nov 2007 at Sydney.
I first communicated with him a couple of years ago after reading his posts on the forum and after a little while we began to telephone one another. I live in England.
I quickly came to realise that he is a very good, honest and helpful man who will do his best to help anyone who needs it but he certainly won't be taken for a fool and he is the straightest bloke you could wish to meet.

When I met him and Nancy I very quickly knew that the opinion that I had formed about him over the previous few months was correct. At one point during our meeting I needed to go to the toilet but I didn't have any hesitation in leaving my rucksack which contained among other things, my passport, a few hundred Aussie Dollars and my return plane tickets to Adelaide and England, with him. I was on a holiday in Adelaide at the time.
That is the level of trust that I would put in him.

Whatever he says about the device being tested will be results and facts that he has seen during the trial.
Steve Hourmouzis is the one taking the risk because I know that Lanky will report, good or bad on the result.

digf

Hi Steve,

I'm new here, but have spent a good deal of time reviewing your website and the like.  Have also read all the negative hype about you.  As far as I can tell, it seems like a bunch of personal crap that has no bearing on anything really.  My question is this.  Becasue I'm from the US and play here, your computerized system does me no good, unless I travel to, say, Europe.  So, while the testing will provide you with great credibility for those who can use the cheating computer system, how about a means to test your other systems that supposedly work elsewhere, like here in the US?

Is there someone on the forum who has your system and plays it in a real casino in the US?  And, could you arrange for some of us to watch an hour or so of play?  I think it could provide you with a tremendous sales tool through this forum, especially for US players.

I specifically ask because when I watched your video with the streak of losses and then the comeback, I was wondering just how often that occurs.  If it constantly wins and loses like a rollercoaster then the only way to win in the long term would be by increasing your bet size or doing some sort of progression.   Even some of the testimonials talk about having alot of patience.   This indicates that the player is continually making comebacks or waiting for the right time or sequence to bet.

Anyway, since this thread was about testing and proving things, I thought I'd throw the idea out to you.

Regards, Gator

Steve,

I live in the UK, and as far as I'm aware electronic devices are also illegal here, so the computer is not really an option for me either.  Funnily enough, I was about to suggest something very similar to what Wally Gator has posted. Do you have many players of your system in the UK? and would it be possible to meet some of them?

Likewise as above , i`m also from, the Uk and would it be possible to meet some of them?
TKxs ft

Vincent, Lanky and Iwonder will already see enough of my methods to know whether or not they are legitimate, or a scam.

Digf and Lanky, thankyou for verifying various points.

Wally Gator, yes what is written about me is a lot of personal crap, because if people that wanted to discredit me actually focused on my technology, they would either be blatantly lying about things, or accidentally validating the techniques as effective. There are many examples, but Forester goes on and on about how I'm a fraud, then says visual ballistics is legitimate. VB is only part of what I teach, and there are many different ways to apply it. I intend to teach VB to both Lanky and Iwonder, among numerous other legitimate techniques I teach. It appears that to people like forester, such legitimate techniques are only legitimate when taught by someone else that doesnt sell computers. Mark howe is the same - goes on about how I'm a fraud etc, then says visual ballistics and bias analysis are legitimate methods, although I teach them too, and they are only a small part of what I teach overall.

Wally, you said:

Quoted Text

while the testing will provide you with great credibility for those who can use the cheating computer system, how about a means to test your other systems that supposedly work elsewhere, like here in the US?

Really it's not "cheating" - you are using predictive technology. Cheating is influencing outcomes. The computer is only part of what is being tested. Originally I did not intend to just send the computers to Iwonder and Lanky, but since someone claimed my wheel is an old design and it would make winning easy, we decided to wait until I receive a John Huxley Mk 7 wheel, which is Huxley's current model. And due to the delay, I just sent a computer to Lanky (and Iwonder today) so they can at the very least get the ball rolling. At the very least, all they need to do is a quick test to validate my claims about the 6 and 3 pocket arc - it exposes over 90% of the lies about my computer, and leaves Forester, Mark Howe and our poor friend Bago quite red-faced.

My non-electronic methods will be addressed too, but validating my claims about them is a little more tricky. That's because while the computers are far more effective and the proof of their effectiveness can be done quickly, the effectiveness of a system takes much longer. Realistically we'd need thousands of spins, and that would take days. A few things to consider about the system validation:

Any system can end up with a profit after even 2000+ spins. Does it mean the system is legitimately effective? No. Many players on various forums have tested systems on programs like roulette xtreme and produced profits over tens of thousands of spins. But extensive testing shows the methods eventually crash, usually in spectacular fashion, due to betting progression. My point is an actual test of the system does not prove much - it is only part of a picture. Even playing a biased wheel often produces a loss over 2000+ spins, although if the bias is legitimate, losses are made back over larger amounts of spins. Does the temporary loss make wheel bias an illegitimate method? Of course not, but to someone that doesnt know any better, wheel bias may seem like an illegitimate way to win. My point is a test on a real wheel, successful of not, does not actually prove much. To many people, it would seem like an ideal test but it is not.

Actual tests on a real wheel are practical and an effective demonstration for roulette computers, but not for non-electronic systems. So what I'll do is explain and demonstrate many of the working principles of the methods I teach. From just explaining various elements of my system alone, they both should know they are legitimate methods, but I'll demonstrate the actual principles too - of course not all, just enough for them to have reasonable information to ascertain whether or not my methods are the real thing, or if I'm the scammer many people have been led to believe. Exactly what I'll show them with regards to the system is not yet decided, but I'll at least cover traditional advantage techniques, and the basics of the first 3 patterns of custom variants as they are the least sensitive, although alone they should be more than sufficient to validate my claims.

I'll also show them both the hybrid roulette computer (http://www.hybridroulettecomputer.com) which may not be necessary, but a lot of people have said it probably doesnt exist, and it's just a scam to increase sales of my other products. For example, Mark Howe claimed that he and a "newspaper" offered me $1M to prove it exists, which is completely a false claim as explained at http://www.genuinewinner.com/markhowe.htm - I've agreed to the challenge many times but Mark ignores it, and refuses to state the name of the newspaper that he claims wants to pay me $1m... for a single story. Yes it's a stupid claim, but for Mark Howe, it's just one of many ludicrous claims - really the man has serious problems and literally appears to be sick.

Wally, every legitimate winning system can and does have losing streaks. There is no way to avoid it. Sure you can use progression, but then you run the risk of blowing your bankroll if the losing streak continues. I've seen losing streaks even continue on biased wheels, but losses are recovered eventually. Generally yes, you need a lot of patience for wheel analysis methods, which is largely why many players dont succeed. But patience and hard work is well rewarded usually with an income far greater than standard employment, plus you dont deal with the thieving tax man in most cases. I do teach quicker methods that enable profitable play within a few spins, and accuracy gradually increases, but such methods require more skill and thorough understanding - it is fine for the serious player, but usually too much for the casual player. If you want quick AND easy, the computers are more what you want, but even they are not perfect because while you can beat any wheel design, not always are conditions suitable (ie if no more bets is called too early).

I've never found a "holy grail" - only legitimate methods that are both effective and practical on most wheels. One method may be completely impractical for one wheel, but perfect for another. This is why I teach many legitimate methods, not just a singular method as some people have been led to believe. In my experience, even without electronics, there is almost always one way or another to beat any wheel. But a wheel being beatable and being practical to beat are two different things. MOST wheels are both possible and practical to beat - even the newer designs, although of course you dont focus efforts where application is less effective. Can you lose with the methods I teach? Yes of course. Even with correct application, you can lose over a few days or even a week, but continued correct application will almost definitely lead to recovered losses. Non-electronic methods to beat roulette, especially wheel analysis methods, are realistically long term - nothing in this field really happens over hundreds of spins. Often an edge is not fully realized until 2000+ spins are played. Of course it's not always like this. The average play can confidently profit after 1000 or so spins, but there are rare occasions where even more spins are required to overcome losing streaks. The casino achieves an edge from ordinary players very slowly, and that's how professional players turn the edge in their favor. Because many people have trouble coping with the required patience, they dont succeed, but it doesnt mean the methods dont work. I'll clearly state my techniques are not for everyone. For some people they're easy to understand and logical. But some players never seem to fully understand what they are doing, or what they've purchased. Usually they are players that dont speak english well. One Spanish player "Addonai" lost over 10,000 Euros which I only found out about a week or so ago, although he's been a banned player for a long time. Before I deleted his wheel analysis software account, I tested his spins and found clear profit so he clearly had no idea what he was doing. I had to fight to get him on the phone to give support, when it should be the other way around. Addonai was banned fro contract breach, and he breached the contracts because he was frustrated. All my documentation clearly states never to apply the methods without first thoroughly testing, so you know application is correct and effective. Did Addonai do this? No, he went out and lost 10,000 Euros. That to me shows a very clear gambling problem - it is not professional play. Who does Addonai blame for this? Me of course, not himself. It is just easier to blame the provider of the tools than to blame himself for incorrect application. In the end I have no idea what Addonai did to lose that much money - but this moron has been attacking me on forums and blaming me for his own mistakes. As for other players, many regularly earn tens of thousands of dollars and more per week. It is not as uncommon as you think. As I have said many times, I have over 500 system and computer players, and there are an enormous range of situations players are in - ranging from literally becoming millionaires, to losing 10,000 Euros and blaming me. Unfortunately for my credibility though, winners dont brag about it on forums. But losers blame me and post rubbish based on their own mistakes and misunderstandings. This creates the illusion that my methods dont work and that I've scammed a few people. Then you have people like Bago who is probably the least trustworthy person i've ever dealt with - basically a child who refused to accept my call (because he didnt speak english well enough) when I only wanted to give him support and correct his misunderstandings of my computer's features. It was very basic things like advice not to use PC dvd players because they are notorious for skipping, but he didnt want to accept that. All this on top of rubbish spread by competitors has led to me having a bad reputation, but I trust soon the very simple truth will be known soon.

Regarding the UK and computer legalities, before the Ritz incident (NOT a "scam" like the papers call it), it was legal. Then it became illegal, and since last years September gaming deregulation, they are legal again. Dont take my word for it though - I suggest all players do their own legal research. That way you have it in writing, and this is your insurance policy. So many people believe computers are illegal, but in actual fact they are mostly legal. There are only a handful of jurisdictions where application is expressly "illegal", which include Australia & USA. Gaming laws are usually state by state, not national, but my solicitors have covered most major states in the USA and found application is illegal. On this note, some have claimed I dont really have solicitors which to me sounds like a claim from someone that has never encountered significant wealth, so I'll specify my solicitor who did this particular research is Lynda Slavinskis, who I hired because she previously worked for Tattersalls which is a major gaming organization in Australia. Anyway perhaps I shouldnt cover all the rubbish claims that aren't really relevant otherwise issues that matter most may be clouded. So starting with the computers, I'll prepare a simple list of the most relevant false claims about the computer for Lanky and Iwonder to investigate. The most important one is about the 6 and 3 pocket sectors.

Regarding meeting UK players, if you were them, would you agree to meet complete strangers and tell them how you covertly win in casinos? If you are actually another player, then that would be fine and many players meet up often for many reasons - usually to either form teams, or just collaborate on which casinos are best, which casinos should be avoided etc. If you want to speak to players without being an actual player, then you need to compensate them for their time which is perfectly reasonable - see http://www.genuinewinner.com/speaktoplayers.htm

Hi Steve,

I understand your observations regarding losers posting on forums and winners keeping quiet, and I'm not trying to get "on your case" here, but there are a couple of points in your last post (and on your website) which are bothering me, hopefully you'll be able to address them.

As indicated in my previous post, I'm primarily interested in your non-electronic methods (although I didn't realise that computers are not illegal in the UK, so I may reconsider this) and it seems to me that there is an inconsistency here:

You said -

Quoted Text

My non-electronic methods will be addressed too, but validating my claims about them is a little more tricky. That's because while the computers are far more effective and the proof of their effectiveness can be done quickly, the effectiveness of a system takes much longer. Realistically we'd need thousands of spins, and that would take days.

But on your web site you state that the most effective methods require collecting between 300 - 600 spins, this is a lot more than the "thousands of spins" you mention. It's true you mention on the system home page that "more assured" methods require 300 - 3000 spins, but these numbers are only mentioned once, on the FAQ page and elsewhere it's 300 - 600 spins, please can you clarify this?

Also, in FAQ 57:

Quoted Text

Assuming you want to use the most effective method, start by collecting 300-600 spins. While you collect these spins, you can apply one of the quicker methods so you profit while you collect spins.

But surely, if you can profit from some other method while collecting spins for the most effective method, why bother to collect those spins in the first place?  the quicker method may not be as profitable, but couldn't you just increase your stakes and thereby get a greater return?

One of the difficulties (as far as I'm concerned), is that there are so many different techniques used in your system, this may be necessary in order that 95% of wheels can be beaten (your figure), but it would be helpful if you were to say what proportion of wheels on average require application of which technique. For example, you mention that VB and dealer signature are both incorporated into your analyses, but VB requires a lot of practice, plus you need to see the wheel and be able to bet late (in the FAQ you say that in general, it is not necessary to have a good view of the wheel) . I'm no expert, but isn't it the case that VB requires a certain amount of bias? but you say a biased wheel is not necessary, or is this only for using the custom variants?

In FAQ 45 you say that you previously analyzed all spins for players, but that this took too much time and so now you provide the software, but elsewhere you say that users of the software can only use 2 of the nine patterns that are available. Doesn't this severely limit the effectiveness of the system? particularly as you say that casinos are already aware of these 2 patterns and monitor their wheels...
I'm not clear as to what you are actually doing at this time. You have a page for players to submit spins so you must still be analyzing them, but then, you say that you now have more than 500 players, and 400 players was the limit of your support...

Again, I'm not trying to catch you out here, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of your products, but I want to get as clear and complete a picture as I can before committing myself, after all, the initial purchase price is a relatively minor factor here.

JD1963, you said:

Quoted Text

But on your web site you state that the most effective methods require collecting between 300 - 600 spins, this is a lot more than the "thousands of spins" you mention. It's true you mention on the system home page that "more assured" methods require 300 - 3000 spins, but these numbers are only mentioned once, on the FAQ page and elsewhere it's 300 - 600 spins, please can you clarify this?

Yes I was going to elaborate on that. Good question. Generally the more spins that are analyzed the better. The absolute minimum should be considered 300 spins per direction. This usually allows me to get a reasonable overall picture of patterns. It is not enough for all pattern types though. If a player sends me 300 spins and I see numerous pattern types, I will usually need extra spins to verify the patterns. Why? Because patterns may be coincidental - there is always that chance. So by analyzing extra spins, this reduces the chance that patterns are mere coincidence. So before at least a basic CV is generated, I need two completely independent sets of data to compare. With smaller amounts of spins, usually it is only possible to generate a reliable enough CV that has only 2 or so patterns. With more spins, finding other pattern types is much easier. Also factors like segregation play an important part. For example, if the player separates spin directions, then I may need only half the amount of spins for the same reliability of analysis.

Usually if a player sends me X amount of spins, the first thing I do is split them in half to check for consistency in patterns between them. Sometimes X is 100 (too few but I still look at them), and sometimes it is 2000+. Not every play has a team and the time to collect thousands of spins which are required for a full analysis. Most players stick to 300 spins, so I split into two segments of 150 spins. 150 spins is adequate for at least 1 pattern type. If patterns are consistent between 150 spins, then a CV can be issued but it is usually better to send more spins so I can verify patterns are authentic. If the player wants to send 2000+ spins that's good, but it doesnt guarantee other patterns will be found - at the very least though it enables a better understanding of previously found patterns. More specifically, always, always the patterns are there, but sometimes they are just too weak to define and if they cant be defined, they cant be used. But sometimes I will see the patterns, but they come and go with irregular cycles and it is too difficult to know when the cycle will start or end. Essentially any of the chart types only tell you what "was", not what is going to be. You use history to predict the future, but you can never do it with 100% accuracy, although you only need enough accuracy to overcome the house edge.

To explain a typical scenario: a player sends 300 spins. I find at least 1 pattern type and inform the player. I will usually request an additional 300 spins to check for consistency, and if there is consistency, a custom variant (CV) with at least one pattern type can be issued. Such CVs will usually have patterns that change, but the pattern types will remain consistent. So I may recommend that before play each day, the player collects 100 spins to use in the online software (or do manual calculations) to make adjustments for pattern changes. Pattern types and actual patterns are two different things. You can use 300 spins to find pattern types, and once the pattern type is known, you can use only 100 spins before play each day to see how actual patterns have changed - this allows optimal accuracy. By teaching players about pattern 1 and what to look for, they will be better prepared for changes that happen with other pattern types. If they dont do this before progressing to other pattern types, they'll be too confused as the charts between pattern 1, and pattern 4+ are like the difference between 2D and 3D. I know many players want to go straight to 9 patterns, but it is not advisable. While CVs are charts that say when and where to bet, they often require adjustment on a day to day basis - the adjustments are very simple once you know what you are doing, but if you dont, then you may be predicting the wrong sectors instead of the correct sectors - this means what should be a strong positive edge goes to a strong negative edge. There are similar issues with traditional advantage techniques like visual ballistics, where betting the wrong sector actually gives you a lower edge than you would have with random bet selection,

Regarding the quicker methods, typically they are not as effective, but it depends on which one you mean. There are a few of them. Some of them are overall better than custom variants - for example visual ballistics, but for this you need a lot of practise and skill, plus not always is no more bets called late enough for such a technique to be viable. Visual ballistics can form part of custom variants - this is what I call format 3 spins.

You said:

Quoted Text

One of the difficulties (as far as I'm concerned), is that there are so many different techniques used in your system, this may be necessary in order that 95% of wheels can be beaten (your figure), but it would be helpful if you were to say what proportion of wheels on average require application of which technique. For example, you mention that VB and dealer signature are both incorporated into your analyses, but VB requires a lot of practice, plus you need to see the wheel and be able to bet late (in the FAQ you say that in general, it is not necessary to have a good view of the wheel) . I'm no expert, but isn't it the case that VB requires a certain amount of bias? but you say a biased wheel is not necessary, or is this only for using the custom variants?

You are referring to different methods. They all have different requirements. In the FAQs on my site, people want clear answers so that's what I try and give them. But in reality, different techniques have different requirements. For example, yes visual ballistics requires a certain degree of 'tilt' to be practical. Indeed application is possible on perfectly level wheels, but it is quite a bit harder - you can learn application, but it is better to simply seek easier to beat wheels. Some players just attempt application on the first wheel they find which is not how it should be done - I always say it all starts with wheel selection. Also to address your comment, yes VB of course needs you to look at the wheel. But CVs dont always use VB (format 3). With the typical CVs, you dont NEED to look at the wheel, unless you segregate which means something like accepting only spins where the wheel is significantly slower - you need to see that, and place your bets after ball release even if no more bets is called way too early (too early for normal visual ballistics). Correct that biased wheels are not necessary, but if a bias is found, the analysis contributes to the CV.

I think what many people get confused about is what CVs actually are. To put it simply, it is nothing more than a method that is a combination of every possible and/or practical method for any given wheel. Do not assume they are anything mystical. If I explain patterns to people, it is usually just patterns 1,2 and 3 because they are least sensitive, it is very clear the methods are legitimate. Pattern 1 does not rely on any form of bias, but patterns are stronger if the ball has a drop zone (tilted) - many things can increase pattern strength for pattern 1. As for patterns 2, it is wheel bias. Pattern 3 is a form of bias that casino software completely misses, so it is far more common than pattern 2. How many wheels are actually biased? Every wheel has some degree of bias, and whatever it is, it is incorporated into the CV. To determine a reasonable bias, if it's something like a half wheel bias due to wheel wobble, you need about 400 spins to detect it, and another 400 to confirm it, minimum. For smaller sectors, you need a lot more spins to validate the bias. For pattern 3 bias, you need realistically thousands of spins because it is a cycle that repeats.

As for patterns 4-9, I dont release details on them but they have nothing in the slightest to do with any form of bias. They have to do with the design of the actual wheel. For example, if a wheel has 12 diamonds, they are manifested in the patterns found. There is nothing at all mystical about them - it is basic science, albeit a field of science that is less prominent.

You said:

Quoted Text

n FAQ 45 you say that you previously analyzed all spins for players, but that this took too much time and so now you provide the software, but elsewhere you say that users of the software can only use 2 of the nine patterns that are available. Doesn't this severely limit the effectiveness of the system? particularly as you say that casinos are already aware of these 2 patterns and monitor their wheels... I'm not clear as to what you are actually doing at this time. You have a page for players to submit spins so you must still be analyzing them, but then, you say that you now have more than 500 players, and 400 players was the limit of your support...

Players do not immediately receive software access. After a month or so and a chat or so with me on the phone to get to know each other, I give them initial software access which covers part of 2 pattern types - it is a basic analysis. When they become better known and trusted, they access other parts of the software. There are more than 1 programs players can access - the online software is independent of software that analysis all 9 pattern types - very few players have it. But many players have the basic software which is accessibly online. Over time more of the pattern types are being added to the online software, but not all players will access it, at least not until they become more established and trusted. Players almost never go from being a new player to receiving full 9-pattern Cvs. This is to protect secrets, but also not always spins sent for analysis are adequate to develop full CVs. I can almost always develop 2 pattern CVs, but 9 patterns is far more involved.

I hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you need elaboration or if anything was missed.

PS - I'll be explaining patterns 1,2 and 3 to Lanky and Iwonder. Possibly pattern 4 also. Pattern 1 doesnt have anything to do with bias, but it is helped by ball drop zones and various other ballistic factors. Pattern 4 gets a little more involved and uses multiple reference points and permutations, so even 100 spins can form thousands of reference points.

@ forum: Iwonder should now have the computer. Lanky already had it.

Lanky & Iwonder, the main claims I'd like you to investigate are:

# 1. When using the test DVD (same spin repeated), after the first ball sample, almost all predictions are within a 6 pocket arc, irrespective of the reference point used. After the tone is heard at least once (ideally twice) to indicate the ball sample has increased in accuracy, almost all predictions are within a 3 pocket arc. Of course if your initial sample is good, then almost all predictions may be within a 3 pocket arc from the start. The false claim from people like Forester, Bago and Howe is that predictions are virtually random. In particularly Forester claims mobile phones cannot possibly be accurate, although he knows nothing about using core timers on cellular phones. He just wants everyone to believe what he sells is superior - like how he said electric zaps were best and audio just saying the prediction is bad, but now he changed his mind since offering FFA. He'll change his mind about other things too if he develops his devices further after finding why Barnett determined FF's results were close to random on a modern wheel.

# 2. There is no significant delay for predictions to be announced. For example, there is no huge 1 second delay before the prediction is announced like Forester has claimed.

# 3. The computer can predict which diamond will be hit, and which third of the diamond (top, middle or bottom) will be hit. You can see this in the DVD supplied, and test it for yourself to confirm it's not some kind of DVD footage manipulation. This will take a bit longer to verify. The above two points are more important though. Mark's computers and forester's IQE6 all assume the ball is going to hit the rotor when the ball reaches a certain speed. Does it really happen like that? No. You need to take into account mild drop zones, and ball-diamond interaction. Despite this, Forester and Mark have the audacity to claim their simplistic technology is superior. And many people believed them because I didnt have the same amount of time to address all this on forums - especially mark was 24/7 on gamblers glen until he was banned. I had better things to do. To be clear though, I'm not interested in discrediting them - I only want to clear my name.

# 4. Forester, Bago and Mark Howe all claimed my computer cannot deal with different wheel speeds. They claim if the wheel speed is outside a certain range, "risk" is announced, so predictions are almost never given and the computer is useless. Their comments are a terrible distortion. Bago simply passed his misunderstandings to Forester and Mark, and it they published their misunderstandings without caring for the truth - because the truth didnt suit them. Even after I corrected them, they didnt want to correct their statements. What's the truth? You can specify whatever acceptable wheel speed range you want. Additionally, the computer can adjust predictions based on wheel speed with an in-built analysis feature. It can be applied manually or automatically. No other computer can adjust predictions based on wheel speed. The others analyze scatter as if wheel speed was the same on every spin, which it is not. My computers can do this, plus also analysis based on wheel speed and resulting ball scatter. Foresters computers only have adjustable offset, but no scatter analysis at all - same as Mark's latest version which is very poor. But anyway perhaps I shouldnt tell them what's wrong with their computers.

If you confirm the above, that exposes over 90% of the false claims about the computer. If you cannot confirm the above, let me know and we'll see what the problem is. There may be many other lies about the computers that we can address, but unless people ask specifically about it, perhaps it is best to focus only on the most relevant points.

Especially with # 1, people like Forester will claim I sent you a manipulated phone or something - he already used that excuse when I created videos to demonstrate this test. Bago sure as hell wont admit he was wrong. And as for Mark, who knows - he may claim the aliens manipulated lanky and iwonder. I dont expect an apology from any of the three stooges. That's because Forester and Mark knew they were lying and distorting information - especially Forester cant plead ignorance because I corrected him many, many times but he just wasn't interested in the truth. I even called him personally, man to man, and he was a complete moron about it all. Some of the most blatantly obvious truths and corrections I made were ignored by him. In the end I concluded Forester was an extremely arrogant person who was so convinced he was right about some things, and about other things, he was not interested in listening to reason probably because the truth didnt suit him - regarding some points, he has blatantly lied. An arrogant person like Forester admitting he was wrong and apologizing? Not a chance. As for Mark, he is the most full of it person I've ever known and has no regard for truth at all - he never had the balls to speak to me via phone. But I think Bago sincerely had no idea what he was doing and was so pig-headed he wouldnt let anyone tell him he was wrong. Whatever their reasons, all I want is for simple truth to be known. If the truth embarrasses them, it is their own doing.

Hi Steve.

Mate Iwonder & I have some concerns about the computer & how it is to be tested.
And how it can be done totally independent of what You have supplied us with.

But in the interest of an Aussie Fair Go.

Iwonder has sent You am Email on behalf of us both.(I now have a Copy of that Email)

Please answer this Email by 4pm tomorrow Friday the 7th November.

If Not then the packages will sent back to You.

Lanky.

Responded. As I said previously, you have my time as needed on this. I have no intention of delaying or stuffing around.

I'll be sending you both another email soon about validation and will offer more suggestions.

Ok Steve Thanks.

That will be good.....It would give Iwonder & I more options to go ahead.

Lanky.

just to keep everyone informed. Lanky and Iwonder are just concerned that tests being done with my computer and with my dvds may be subject to my influence, and that any results may not be "independent". It's a fair call. However I've emailed them a list of suggestions to verify the phones are not "rigged".

The bottom line lanky is I know my computers are legit, you and Iwonder dont yet. I have absolutely nothing to hide and am somewhat naked in sending phones to you both for whatever tests you want - test it until the keys wear down for all I care. Because my claims are accurate, any testing you do will validate my claims. The question is now what testing can be considered "fully independent", and this is addressed in the email I just sent.

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The computer can predict which diamond will be hit, and which third of the diamond (top, middle or bottom) will be hit.

I mean rly what world do you live in? I highly doubt that any roulette computer can predict this. Since the ball does not drop at a constant speed.

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The ball is going to hit the rotor when the ball reaches a certain speed. Does it really happen like that? No. You need to take into account mild drop zones, and ball-diamond interaction.

Steve...
First you claim that you can predict, which diamond it can hit, then you say that ball don't drop in to rotor at the same speed. These claims are against eachother.

What average hit ratio can i expect on the computer?
When will the demonstration video be done? What is status on the huxley?

Feel free to ban me if i'm a monkey on your back

Vincent,

You said:

Quoted Text

I mean rly what world do you live in? I highly doubt that any roulette computer can predict this. Since the ball does not drop at a constant speed.

I live on Earth. You dont have the computer so it is easy to criticize what you dont know. If I thought for a second that Lanky and Iwonder couldnt verify this, I wouldnt include it in the list of claims for them to investigate. My players know it is true, and anyone that actually tests the computer will know. It may not be correct 100% of the time because there are other factors such as slight timing errors, ball track deformations etc, but it is correct about 90% of the time with regards to which diamond will be hit, and which part of the diamond will be hit. Accuracy to within 1/3rd of a diamond may not be possible with all wheels, but even on the most modern wheels it is correct to within 1 diamond on clearly the majority of occasions.

Skeptical? How about we let people that actually have the computer decide if it's true.

You said:

Quoted Text

First you claim that you can predict, which diamond it can hit, then you say that ball don't drop in to rotor at the same speed. These claims are against eachother.

Vincent you obviously dont understand how the computer works, or the physics of the wheel. True the ball does not fall at the same speed every time. Sometimes it will miss all diamonds, sometimes clip a horizontal diamond, sometimes a vertical diamond, and different parts of the diamonds can be hit with different effects. So correct the ball doesnt hit the rotor at the same speed every time.

My statement was "Mark's computers and forester's IQE6 all assume the ball is going to hit the rotor when the ball reaches a certain speed. Does it really happen like that? No. You need to take into account mild drop zones, and ball-diamond interaction.". I'll elaborate. Mark's and Forester's computer assume that when the ball is CALCULATED to reach a certain speed (not necessarily when it actually reaches that speed), let's say at point A on the wheel, that the ball is going to strike the rotor at that point. Is that how it really happens? NO. That was my point. My computers have the capability to know not only which diamond will be hit, but if the ball will miss a diamond, hit a horizontal diamond, hit a vertical diamond, and if hitting a vertical diamond, it can determine which part of the diamond will be hit within a reasonable degree of accuracy. How accurately? It varies between wheels, but usually between 1/3rd of the diamond on older wheels, to 1 diamond on the most modern wheel. Why only 1 diamond on modern wheels? Because the diamonds are usually smaller (often 1/3rd of the size) and it's a smaller area to target.

Additionally, both Mark's and Forester's computers assume the wheel rotor is going the same speed when doing a scatter analysis. None of Forester's computer really does a scatter analysis though - it is more like you create the chart on a piece of paper then determine the offset to tune. But that "manual analysis" is still assuming the wheel is the same speed every time. I am not referring to rotor strike point in this case, I am referring to the ball behavior and bounce and the differences between different wheel speed. Did you know on some wheels even a 500MS wheel speed difference can mean the ball bounces an extra 12 or so pockets? As for Mark's computer, his earlier computer has in-built scatter analysis (his recent ones dont), but it does the same thing wrong as forester's "manual analysis" - it assumes the ball bounces the same way each time. Sure such a basic scatter chart is good enough for some wheels, but on other wheels accuracy is seriously degraded.This is all assuming the rotor strike point is correctly predicted, in marks case it is way off for many reasons. If you were interested in playing for a living, I know I'd prefer to use technology that did the job right. Both of their computers have major problems, but I'm not interested in giving them full details of the problems and how to overcome them. Truth is neither Forester or Mark have the vaguest idea of how sophisticated some of my technology is, and I don't just mean my standard computer or even the hybrid for that matter. But specifically comparing my most basic computer to their most sophisticated computers, they are worlds apart. Where their computers get random results, as Barnett found with Forester's computer, my basic computer can achieve hit rates of even 1 in 15. I cant help but get the feeling that mark and forester are following this thread closely, and I'm sure they are, wondering how on earth my claims could be true - especially forester thinks he knows everything, and that if he cant do it then no-one can. He has changed his mind about so much as he continued to develop his computers. At least mark uses polynomials but his use of them is completely wrong. According to forester, everything he does and everything he developed is the "best" like it is a competition about having the biggest penis. At least it is the best, and mine is the worst, until he changes his computers to more closely resemble mine.

My claims are not against each other. You just didnt understand. Feel free to be a monkey on my back - I have bananas for you.

You said:

Quoted Text

What average hit ratio can i expect on the computer?
When will the demonstration video be done? What is status on the huxley?

Hit rates will vary from 1 in 10 to 1 in 25 depending on the wheel and settings.

I'm waiting to hear back from Huxley regarding the mk7 wheel.

Vincent I am not going to ban you for asking questions or asking me to address specific points. If I banned people for something like that, I'd be banning quite a few people. Just because I moderate doesnt mean I'll abuse it.

Steve,

Thanks for all the information, and what appear to be very frank and honest answers.  To me, what you do is provide education.  It's no different than any other walk of life, really.  We commonly pay (very well, I might add) for a good, and sometimes not so good, education.  I have 2 kids in college and another starting next year and it's costing me $100's of thousands of dollars.  And, for what?  So they can say they went to x university.  No question the universities have done a phenomenal job at marketing their product.

That all said, perhaps I may be able to use one of your systems to recoop some of my cash going to these universities.  I am most interested in a consistent system that will allow me to make a significant income and be able to "fly below the radar".

I am eager to hear the results of all this testing ....

Gator

Steve it will be interesting to see, to see if the bear, is a bear and not a duck. Much of your text is just convincing text.
Anyway have a good day.

Vincent, convincing text is convincing text because it is the TRUTH.

Wally, with either the system or the computers, they are just tools - nothing more. They are effective only in the hands of someone that knows how to use them. To people that dont know any better, I MUST be some kind of scammer because they believe roulette is not beatable, and they think if it works I wouldnt be selling it. But to those that DO know better, even just part of what I teach is well known to be effective and it's really no big deal. Indeed a large part of what I offer is plain knowledge/education, which is still a tool.

After years of false accusations of being dishonest from competitors and people that have no idea what they're talking about, I cant be anything but 'frank' with my responses. I'm extremely tired of ignorant people. There are many examples of ignorance I can use but one is people believe if the system really worked, I would just use it myself and never sell it, so I MUST be a scammer. The truth is very simple - I have much better technology than the system and have no need for the system anymore. But that doesn't mean I'll let it sit unused. Of course I'll sell it for additional revenue.

Wally, this is a little off-track but anyway: my thoughts on the education system are varied. Of course you need to give your kids the widest range of options possible, which includes the most "recognized" universities etc. My two are too young for school, and while I intend to do the same for them (so they have more available options), my feelings about the entire "education system" are mixed. School teaches them invaluable skills ranging from basic social skills to knowledge for life. A good education is knowledge that is used throughout life - you can never get enough knowledge. But I feel the "education system" is not all about knowledge - there is too much focus on getting qualifications to get a job, then you spend 50 or so years of your life working 5 days a week, 9am-5pm, too tired to enjoy life at 6pm when you return from work through peak hour traffic, plus the tax man steals half of what you earn to do things like fight wars you dont agree with, all for a bit of time on the weekend with your family. To me that sounds crazy and unacceptable, but everyone is different. To me the "education system" is like a railroad to "subtle slavery". I refuse to believe "thats just how it is" as most people tend to believe - life is EXACTLY we make of it. Nature already gave us everything we need - we as a species seem to have changed our environment to suit us, rather than fit in with nature. In doing so we are destroying the planet and making our own lives hell. I dont mean we all should run around with spears chasing rabbits - i mean we need a blend of technology and nature. We're getting there, but perhaps too slowly. Absolutely unequivocally BALANCE always, always occurs. The balance that will eventually occur, if we dont balance it ourselves, is our planet will become far less hospitable, whic may very well cause deaths of millions, which would actually benefit earth the way people treat it - that is the balance. Again I don't mean I wont send my kids to the best school possible. Just that I want to make them aware of all options.

After high school I did one month of applied physics at RMIT, because I wanted to learn physics. I quit for two reasons - firstly what I wanted to learn was not being taught by "modern physics" (I was after new knowledge), and secondly I didnt want a "career", I wanted a life. For some people, career is life, and acknowledged that everyone is different. Anyway just some of my idle thoughts..

My wife said it brilliantly once. We were walking in a park and looking at ducks. I said to my wife "imagine being a duck. All you'd do is eat, sleep, crap and ****. ". In retrospect, it was a stupid comment. My wife replied, "that's pretty much what we do, except we're the ones stupid enough to work in between..."

This is a copy oth Email I have just sent toe Steve & Iwonder.

Hi Steve & Iwonder & Forums.

I am sorry but I have just come back from the Drs. and I regret that I will have to withdraw from the Challenge completely as of Now.

I have 2 more appointments on the 17th & the 18th October to go to and another 3 Specialists to see before Christmas.

I have sent the package back to You Steve by Registered post the Number is *******.

I have not looked at the CDS so I cannot comment any further on the matter.

I am sorry if I have let anyone down but I am sure You can Respect My discission to do this as My health comes first.

Yours Faithfully.

Lanky.

The following was sent to Lanky and Iwonder:

Hi Lanky, no problem at all. Sincerely sorry to hear about your health and hope all works out ok.

Iwonder, we are still ok to proceed with you if you are happy to do so.

Either way, can either of you suggest someone else that may be suitable? They need to be "normal" people, well known and trusted on forums (essential), trustworthy, and have at least moderate knowledge of roulette. I'll email Victor from VLS to see if he's interested but any suggestions are appreciated.

Best Regards,

Steve | Management
Roulette Wheel Analysis Group
ACN 090 739 754
Skype: rouletteanalysis
Ph. +61 3 9727 2211 (Australia, +10 GMT, 9am-5pm)
Calls from the public must be on Thursdays. Calls from players can be other days, but must be scheduled via email to guarantee availability of consultants.

Roulette system (no electronics):
http://www.genuinewinner.com
Looking for proof of effectiveness? See http://www.genuinewinner.com/proof.html

Electronic cheating devices:
http://www.roulettecomputers.com
http://www.hybridroulettecomputer.com

Our Energy Research / Non-profit Organization:
http://www.universalsymbiosis.org

If anyone is interested in replacing Lanky, please email me (nospam AT genuinewinner.com).

The ideal candidate:

1. Well known and trusted on forums (no point in being someone whois not well known)
2. Adequate time and will to test things, and visit me in person (I'll pay expenses etc). The person needs to be 100% willing.
3. Trustworthy - I'm going to teach you secrets which will help validate my claims, and you need to keep them to yourself.
4. At least moderate knowledge of roulette - you should be at least familiar the basics of typical advantage techniques.

For those who just found this thread or received the email about the challenge, Lanky and Iwonder are well known on various forums, not just this forum. They are best known on VLS roulette forum.

Steve,

Your wife is a brilliant woman !!!  Right on point.  What's obvious to some is shunned by most.

As for school, having been to graduate and post-graduate school more than once, I now live by the following observation by one of America's foremost business philosophers, Jim Rohn:

"Formal education will make you a living, self-education can make you a fortune".

I made a living for too many years.  While I no longer 'work for the man' I am still searching for that self-education to make a fortune.

I think for most playing roulette on a consistent basis to earn a living would be viewed as something that would need to be held almost as a 'secret' in their life.  Do you find that to be the case with your players?

I ask because, living about an hour or so from 2 very large land based casinos in the US, I would think anyone would like to be able to do that, but could never tell their family and friends as they would be ridiculed.  Although, I must say, it's very appealing.  With that in mind, what is the training process in your system-based program?  How long does it take to get familiar enough so that you begin making money on a consistent basis?  Do you have players who literally learn the materials, record spins, talk to you and begin making money right away and continue to do so for prolonged periods of time .... say years?  How long has the longest player been consistently making money with you and your system? (I am referring to non-computer systems ... I can't use the computer in the US)

Wally, great quote from Jim Rohn - very true. When I had a full head of hair, I worked "for the man" for about 1 year before realizing it wasn't the way to do things. It wasnt a lifestyle - it was more like slavery.

I've been involved in countless business ventures - everything from gemstone dealing, to offshore investments, advertising and of course gaming-based enterprises. I still operate numerous companies in different markets - i do a lot more than roulette. The "easiest" way I've ever found to make money is using the bank's money to acquire assets. For example, taking a loan based on a good credit rating to buy something like real estate. A good property will double in value over about 10 years. You can buy property below it's value too. You can focus on property that will benefit from relatively inexpensive modifications that increase value. You pay an interest-only loan, and by the time you sell the property (if you sell it), you end up paying about half price for a property. But you need money and good credot rating before doing that in the first place, and there is a lot of paperwork that go with it, plus not to mention you pay ridiculous things like stamp duty and government taxes.. and you thought you already paid your tax.

The "best" overall way I've ever found to earn money is roulette computers, without a doubt. You get to screw over casinos (the man himself), and dont pay a cent tax (in most cases).

As for the system, it's good but has limitations. Not all players succeed with it, for varied reasons. The most common reason is the player doesnt understand it well enough. In such a case, they may not know which of the techniques are suitable for their specific wheels, and how to adapt the system to specific wheels. But they only need to get adequate support from me to understand all this. Most players dont bother speaking to me and like to go their own way, which is not the best thing to do. There are so many different situations players are in. Some have literally won over $1m, some havent won a dime. The players that do best travel to jurisdictions/casinos where conditions are best. That can mean the difference between no profit, of literally $50,000+ per week. So the methods are more for the serious player, not the player that wants to spend 15 minutes in the casino, once per week, and expects to be a millionaire overnight. But there are of course other players that are happy with a few thousand profit here and there it can be achieved realistically with a few hours per week, assuming the conditions are suitable in their casino for quicker play methods, which is usually the case. There are many legitimate methods to beat roulette I teach - some are quicker but "skill" is required, and some mean long tedious hours in the casino but are easier to apply. Some can be applied on virtually ANY wheel, and some need specific wheels. In my experience any wheel can be beaten, but some of the most modern wheels need the player to have a better understanding of my methods. But it makes sense to play on wheels that are easier to beat, rather than play the first wheel you find as many players do.

As for the training process, generally it starts with you receiving the primordials document which is the basic of basics. After players read it and visit their casino a few times to study points raised in the primordials document, they call or email me explaining everything about the wheels they play on etc, and I advise them personally. It would be impractical to create one massive document that contains every little piece of information. If I did it that way, players would be as confused as hell, especially in light that many players struggle with even the most basic concepts outlined in the primordials document. Every player is different - some grasp the basics and rapidly progress to more advanced methods within a few weeks. Some cant seem to get their feet off the ground. Usually players who dont speak english well progress much slower. Thats because we can literally spend an hour on even one simple point when on the phone. so how long would it take before you start profiting? Days, weeks, or maybe months - it varies incredibly between different players. Realistically, if you visit me, or spend enough time with me via phone and emails back and forth to learn everything, it is a matter of a few weeks to stand on your own two feet without needing much more guidance from me. You can do all you need with specific techniques, or use the software I provide for wheel analysis.

I have many players that have been earning consistently from the methods I teach, for years. But at the same time I have players that have achieved nothing but frustration in years - but I perhaps hear from such players once every 2-3 months if at all. Really all I do is give you the tools - you must use them. It is hard to say how long players have been winning consistently because I dont keep in contact with all players and dont always know what they've been up to - I try to teach players to be independent. “Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.” Previously if a player used custom variants, they relied entirely on me for analysis which took up way too much of my time, which is why I made available a lite version of the wheel analysis software I use, and many players use it to earn a living. On the whole, you decide how quickly you'll stand on your own feet and earn consistently. All I do is provide the tools - players must seek support rather than rely on me chasing them. On occasions I emailed all players asking for updates on their progress, and I was so surprised how many people had questions but couldnt be bothered to ask. On the whole, if you are motivated, willing to learn and actually seek support as needed, and dedicate time frequently (not just once per week), then you can begin earning consistently very quickly.

Hi Wally,
I wanted to add note from a professional player’s viewpoint, one who also happens to be a very grateful student of Steve’s non-computer system.
One of the main themes of Steve’s teaching is to first grasp the concept that you are playing the wheel, & NOT the table. I can see the reason for Steve’s frustration here. Most of the Tete d Tete on this forum and other venues revolves around outside betting, which will never and can never achieve the kind of results that Steve teaches.

I see these new so called: “systems” or “sector bets” on these forums. Or, “just follow my magic formula for betting on thirds” over and over again.
I watch each of them go on for a few weeks, grasping for the magic. Lured in by the possibility that someone has finally found it: “Eureka!”
Then only to find a few weeks later that the damn thing had no legs. Of course it has no long term legs, or appeal.
It is based on random events. Numbers with no memory.  Even a basic High School statistics class will teach you these unfortunate, but true facts. It takes a minimum of 10,000 spins for roulette patterns to level out- Red, Black Odd- Even.
They are more likely to occur in random strings or sequences, only getting to the 50-50 level after thousands of plays.
That is why Fibonacci has not longevity.
That is why a 50-50 or outside 3rd’s bet will only get you into trouble eventually.
You cannot hope for success if you do not attack the physical and mathematical aspects and flaws of the game.
Steve teaches many brilliant ways to overcome that edge. I live in the states also, & used to be incredibly frustrated with double zero U.S. wheels. However, double zeros pay up also, if you know it is time to bet on them.
G.W. roulette physical systems show you at least 9 different ways to make that extra 3% house edge go away. Those two zeros do not matter any more.
In fact, I love having 38 slots, when I know that those zeros are in my predicted sector.
Roulette is the 3rd  lousiest percentage edge for the house out of all American. casino games.
Baccarat is #1, Craps #2,  and Roulette # 3
(Some may dispute the order, but not the games and this is not counting skilled poker or blackjack edges)
You only have to get over a 2-5% winning ratio-This is not hard if you know where the ball will land 60% + of the time. For me, Roulette is by far #one, because I can physically and logically tilt the house edge to my advantage.

Another fact: the wheel can be the most modern model out there-
The dealers are still the house’s biggest vulnerability (in my opinion).
Dealers are also my Heros, I never want to beat them up.
In most U.S. Casinos, they want you to win and love high rollers, as long as you don’t make them look bad. When they hold that little ball in their fingers and spin the same way each and every time. Or, when they stop the wheel and spin in one motion – they create predictability very far from randomness. That is, when you know what you are looking for.
Using GW strategies taught me what to look for. This kind of knowledge completely separates you from 499 out of 500 players that will sit next to you at a live table.
They all stare at the numbers on the table. They all do there little groupings and circle those “hot” numbers-Never glancing at the real culprit, the wheel.
You just need to be willing to do the work, treat this like the skilled occupation that it is, and never blow your wad. No progressive nonsense, just steady percentage winning. This is where even the wealthiest high-rollers go wrong.
When you pay attention to everything, spot every flaw, watch every movement, and play with extreme discipline; you’re there. The house edge will melt away. It is not rocket science as they say, you only have to shave a few points off that edge to get paid almost every time you take that magic seat. Nobody else wants to give you this information. Certainly not the house. Certainly not other pros, unless your teaming up with them.
I made the cost of the non-computer training system back in my first week of play. It has been all gravy ever since that week.
There is a guy on one of the G.W. Mpeg-testimonials that ends with “why don’t you charge more for this stuff?”  I am in complete agreement. However, I also understand, as Steve does, how many maniacs there are in this industry. It does not always attract the most sensible or trustworthy types. After all, Casinos are not-morality based enterprises.
On the other end of the argument is the fact that level-headed people tend to do exceptionally well at the game- Go figure?  
The hard part? Steve has the difficult part- dealing with maniacs and con-artists on a regular basis. We’ve got it easy. All we have to do is read, listen, learn and win.
As for me and my job? I find winning on a regular basis a fine way to make a living.

And no, I am not Steve’s cousin or long lost American brother (so many pessimists out there?)
I agree that in most cases, it pays to be cautious. However, not in this case.
This is gambling we are talking about here.
Casinos are controlled by the most money-grabbing owners on the planet today.
No real product, just suckers.
They need, no, they deserve to be taken down whenever possible. After all, somebody has to win in this world: Why not us?
When you approach it realistically, that 5-6% edge ain’t much. True believers can wipe these kind of odds out by just a small amount of listening and learning.–Steve gives you a lot more than that.

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Solobear,

Thanks for your post.  And, I am a believer.  A quick question for you: why do you believe you have been consistently successful and others fail using the same information and/or access to that information?  If 10 people were given the same test over and over and only 1 initially got all the answers correct, it would only be a matter of time, provided the information did not change, that the other 9 realized the same success.  What am I missing here?  Emotion?  Inability to follow instructions? Too difficult?  Too easy?  Lack of discipline?  Lack of time?  No patience?  What?  We're talking about losing money here if you don't eventually "get it", and you've spent a considerable amount for the investment.  Maybe I'm naive, but I keep scratching my head when thinking of this.  Appreciate your thoughts.  Thanks.

Gator

Wally, Solobear may have his own opinions on this but I can tell you the reasons are quite varied. Below are points for consideration:

1. By far the biggest reason a player may not be successful is poor communication with me. Unsuccessful players tend to have poor English skills. For example, Bago refused to speak with me via phoine because he said he didnt speak english well enough. Bago is really thick-headed though and I would have expected someone with poor english skills to at least know not to apply a precise timing device on a skipping DVD. He has enormous misunderstandings of even the most basic features. Out of over 500 players, of course a few are bound to be like him. Either way, anyone who sees the computer either in a demo or by being a player would know how twisted and inaccurate his claims were. When other players tried to correct him on the player only forum, he attacked them too, trying to tell them about their own business. We all think he's a much of a "dickhead" as they come. You most certainly find more nuts in this industry than any other. A few spanish players have also refused to speak with me via the phone for the same reasons as bago.

I shouldnt need to chase up players to support them - it should be the other way around.

2. Differing levels of intelligence. Some people just dont "get it".

3. Some people had unrealistic expectations of it all being so effortless and easy. As my site clearly says, even a winning system is still work - it is not effortless money from the sky.

4. Some players aren't comfortable in real casino conditions. Some don't give any effort to focusing on the better wheels to play, and will just try the first wheel they find.

5. Many players dont have anywhere near the patience or discipline. They are accustomed to red/black, or dozens systems where application can be explained in a few lines of text. Such players tend to have very unrealistic expectations. The methods I teach are not difficult, but players that are accustomed to betting red/black may disagree. To professional players, the techniques are perfectly practical and reasonable.

6. Once I emailed all players asking for updates on their progress. I was shocked to see so many people come forward with questions, and they never bothered to ask me them before. Some people just can't be bothered with it all. The players that actively seek support are the ones that succeed. Ask any legitimate player and they'll verify I work very hard to ensure your success and I sincerely do care about your success.

Wally it is not merely a mater of someone being correct or incorrect. There are many, many variables and reasons why one player may succeed while another fails. But you can be absolutely sure that when someone calls me a "scammer" and that my methods don't work, they sincerely have no idea what they are talking about. Either that or they have something to lose from me being honest.

The bottom line is if you are dedicated and actually seek support as needed, and actually take the time to seek support, I mean proper support like speaking on the phone, you will almost definitely achieve success. You may think if the system works, wouldn't almost EVERYONE be successful. I thought that should be the case from the beginning too, but it didn't turn out that way. But it has nothing to do with the system - it is the player and their use of the tools. Remember all I do is provide the tools (the system), and it is just about as perfect as it's ever going to get. But like any tool, it is only effective with correct application. Some players have attacked me for their own incorrect application of the tools - it's so much easier to blame me than themselves for making mistakes. While all this may not be what you'd want to hear if you are considering being a player, but it is the TRUTH and that's all you'll ever get from me. I pride myself on being 100% honest and believe lying for any reason is like hiding from yourself, and that's not what I do. That's why I get "cranky" when I'm accused of being dishonest. Although the people accusing me of being dishonest are usually competitors because they want to compete. There are a few real players that have accused me of it too. One player, after never even having applied the methods, read rubbish on Mark Howe's web sites and demanded a refund saying he found out I was a fraud. Well, he reported me to the ACCC, and because I trade as a corporation, they have a mandate to investigate false advertising. They did their investigation, I validated my claims, then the player ended up apologizing to me. Bare in mind this was one of my own players. He had exactly what I claim under his nose but was too ignorant to see it. Really ever since I began teaching others the techniques and distributing my computers, I've been attacked like you wouldn't believe from all sorts of people. But the people that know me well know the very simple truth - I am completely honest. Although some of the stuff said no doubt pisses me off, I still have a lot of patience and faith that the truth will EVENTUALLY come out and be widely known. In the end though, anyone can either visit me or do their own thorough research and decide for themself. Speaking of which, Huxley assures me I'll have the new wheel within 2 weeks. Then I'll set dates for another public demonstration. Everyone is invited but I keep demos to no more than 15 people at a time, or it is a lot less personal and the message isnt conveyed as clearly. I may conduct more than one demo depending on demand.

PS - For those that think Solobear must be me, recorded conversation with him is at http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial7CSUSA.wma - starting from $40 and profiting over $800 with $1 units... it has nothing to do with luck.

Anyway I'll keep everyone informed about the upcoming public demonstration. Anyone can attend and see the truth for themselves. I'll make at least some video and/or audio from the public demo available, but you'll see a hell of a lot more if you actually attend for yourself, rather than base opinions on hearsay as most ignorant people tend to do. Ignorant, or perhaps pessimistic people tend to ignore anything that is positive about me and focus on all the negative rubbish. For clowns like Bago, he claims the positive testimonials are from people that probably work for me or that I paid. It's either that, or Bago was wrong and he actually is a moron - he wouldnt want you to believe that of course. Out of 500+ players, is it realistic to believe everyone knew what they were doing? Many people dont even bother to get support. It is not coincidence that my most successful players have spoken to me at length a good ten or so times - and the players that aren't successful tend to never have spoken to me before, or at the most once or twice. Not at all a coincidence. Many player base their efforts on what they read in the primordials document alone, the basics of basics document - what you pay for is largely in my head, not a document. There are many ways to beat roulette, and why I didnt put them all in a singular document is already explained.

The ACCC already investigated me after one player's complaint, and like I said, after my validations the player himself ended up apologizing to me. If I was concerned about being investigated and having to validate my claims to government authorities, and if I had any doubts about the accuracy of my claims, I wouldn't be trading as a corporation, because corporations are heavily regulated. If I was dishonest, I'd trade as something like a standard business name, just like 99% of system sellers. Anyway enough for now. We'll just see how the next public demos go as it will have broader publicity - again, anyone can attend. If you want to know once and for all the truth, the door is open: apply at http://www.genuinewinner.com/conference.htm

Steve,

I have a few questions for clarification on the audio with solobear.  You or he can answer, doesn't matter.  Questions are based on the following:  He arrives with a $40 BR, gets up over $1400 using $1 chips, loses $600+ then leaves with $800+, right?

1.  Let's say he begins on the downside of this run.  Now he is $-600+ from the beginning (in his case he has to leave the casino because his BR is only $40).  Similar to an hour long video on your website where it loses and then comes back.  Question is, do your strategies provide for when to leave?  Had solobear stayed for 8 or 10 hours as opposed to 2 or 3 hours would he simply have ridden a rollercoaster of ups and downs or would he have consistently increased.  The $600 loss is significant using $1 chips.  Did he increase his bet size once he reached a certain $ of wins?

2.  Was he using only one (1) strategy?

3.  Using your system, do players employ more than one strategy per session?

4.  Is it common for your players to begin with such small BRs?

5.  Do your players stop playing when the dealer is changed?  I ask this because it appears that solobear was not using the system described on your website as a custom variant on that wheel.  I am assuming that if you have the spins required to use a custom variant the dealer has little to do with success.

Solobear did not use any progression at all - he says this in the audio. Ups and downs will always occur - there is no way around it. But the overall trend is up, just like the overall trend is down if you do not overcome the house edge.

Despite the draw-down, $800 profit with $1 units using only flat bets is significant. It is repeatable.

None of the strategies need you to leave at any point. The more you play, the more you earn.

I believe he used a blend of two strategies.

Using more than one strategy is called a custom variant.

Yes I always advise players to start with small bankroll. Many players increase bet size on the casino's money which is fine, provided you have adequate bankroll to do so and overcome the inevitable losing streaks.

Sometimes you pay attention to the dealer, other times they make no difference at all. You learn numerous legitimate methods to beat roulette and each work on different principles. When you combine those various principles, it becomes a custom variant.

Steve, have you met richard marcus?

No but I believe he knows one of my hybrid roulette computer teams.

o, rly?

He said in his blog that he knows one of my hybrid teams, and that the hybrid works well etc. I dont know which team he knows but they shouldn't be even disclosing themselves as players.

Update: the mk7 wheel is in transit and I'll have it within 48hrs. Assuming it is not damaged or anything, some time this week I plan to start organizing the next public demo.

It seems I'm having trouble finding a suitable person for the validations - ie to replace Lanky. I havent heard back from Iwonder regarding testing, and Lanky withdrew due to health issues. There are a few possibilities for replacements though, one of which is someone who's actually visited Mark Howe - he is well known on Gamblers Glen, but not here or VLS. I might add he believes Mark is mentally ill too. He'll be ready for possible validations around 15th January though, and I plan to conduct another public demo before then.

There are plenty of people who want to attend the public demos, so here's everyone's chance to attend again. Of course you can always come for a private demo, and you'll see more in private demos anyway. Public demos are more for the people that are curious - the more serious players who have intentions of becoming players and their team see me alone. Either way at either type of meeting/demo, you will see everything you need to know how full it it people like Bago, Mark Howe and Forester are.

Hi all,

Some very interesting discussion. Solobear, be fair to the members of what are a free discussion forums, methods posted by them are there to be tested, analysed, discussed and developed before risking hard cash - they are theoretical and the knowledge/information on offer is free. Contrary to what you say some do stand the test of time - very few admittedly. The same statistic holds true for the vast majority of systems offered for sale, very few have stood the test of time. It's good to read some positive, informative contributions on the systems/methods under discussion here, hopefully the original challenge will be resumed soon and we will all be wiser and better informed in the very near future.


                                                                     Best regards



                                                                            

Coolpaddy, if every successful player published information about their experiences, the general population on forums would feel very differently about me. But generally successful players understandably want to keep it to themselves. Plus as per the terms on my site, players arent even permitted to disclose themselves as players. I do allow rare exceptions like Solobear, as he recently gave an audio testimonial. In actual fact there are many members even on VLS forum that dont say a word and just read the rubbish said about me. So who mainly writes about me on forums? People like Mark Howe under fake names. Competitors like Forester. Morons like Bago who didnt have any idea what he was doing. This creates a convincing illusion that just about everyone who's dealt with my is unhappy. There are of course a few players that havent had a good experience with me, but it is by far the minority of players. Out of 500 or so players, of course are few wont have a clue what they purchased. 5 or so people that have said negative things about me then the word spreads, versus HUNDREDS of others who know otherwise but arent going to let the cat out of the bag... not a comparison, but people judge based only what they see - not what reality actually is.

There is unbelievable trash written about me, and many people are taken in by it. According to Mark Howe, at a bbq with my neighbors I got really drunk and told them I built a machine to speak to aliens. According to Mark, a neighbor of mine contacted him about it. Read it for yourself at stevenhourmouzis.com. How can I compete with such irrefutable evidence that my computers are not effective?? It doesnt stop with alien communications, no, it goes so far beyond it I cannot fathom how such people function. As for this claim of Mark's, firstly he doesnt know where I live as already addressed in detail in this thread, and secondly I've never even had a bbq with my neighbors where I do live. Ok so we know how much of a joke Mark is, but what about legitimate players like Bago? FORGET ALL THE ALIEN COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT ABSOLUTE NONSENSE AND CONSIDER WHAT MAKES PEOPLE LIKE BAGO CLAIM I'M A SCAMMER? The most important claim that he made was that my computer gives random predictions with Forester's different diamond test. The idiot used the computer on a skipping dvd player - he sent me the video of his test. Other players corrected him but he attacked them and said they were wrong as if they'd never tested the computer for themselves. Forester latched onto Bago's false claims, and so did Mark - it didnt matter what the truth was. So what's the next logical step for me? I release a video demo of me doing the test. What did Forester day? He claimed I must have manually inputted the prediction. So what I do next is another video where the phone is never moved from the screen. What did Forester say then?.. that I programmed the phone to predict a few numbers. I am not a programmer. No matter what, he will keep making excuses. Besides, this test is done in all public demos to show of full of it forester and bago are, then the same computer is used for the actual demo on real spins. I sent a computer to both lanky and iwonder to do the tests until the keys wear down. I would not have done this if I was not 500% confident they would validate my claims. To confirm the computer is not rigged etc, they can do whatever tests they want, anything at all. Why on Earth would I take a suicidal step to send them a rigged phone?

Everyone needs to keep in mind many people have a lot to lose by me being honest, and them being wrong. Forester would have one red face, everyone would know Bago is as stupid as he is incompetent, and Mark, well Mark can go on making claims about alien communications.

Honestly whoopie-do that my technology works - it is really not rocket science. I am not the first or only person that knows how to beat roulette with legitimate techniques and technology. It's just that complete morons for various reasons unjustly attack me and I want to set the record straight.

So what matters here? The color underwear I wear on Tuesdays? No. If anyone wants to get involved in all that, and all the bickering rubbish going around, you'll get lost in the maze. the truth is beneath a mountain of rubbish. But stick to what really counts, and the truth is extremely simple, and it is very easily established for anyone that has the computer. Thats why i sent a free computer to two people. It is not my fault that lanky had to send it back due to health issues (not related to the computer of course), and iwonder just hasnt had time to test it yet.

Either way, the next public demo is coming up soon. I'll have the new wheel likely tomorrow - a 2008 model mk7 wheel. Anyone, and I mean anyone can attend and find the truth for themselves. They can spin the wheel for themselves, check for magnets or whatever. Of course, as previously, people like forester will say probably only my family attended which is the excuse of an embarrassed man. But like I said, such people will NEVER, NEVER admit they were wrong because they know they are wrong. And regarding people that may not even know they were wrong, these are not the type of people to admit they were wrong and say SORRY. Can you imagine Bago saying "sorry steve, youi were right and I just didnt know what I was doing"? Especially I have attempted to correct foresater many, many time,s but he is not interested in the truth because it does not suit him. He misleads people to increase his own sales, and to boost his ego making everyone think he is king - again like I said, he treats it like a penis measuring contest.

Then there are morons like bago who never even purchased my system. All he got was an introductory document of the system and is telling everyone all I teach is dealer signature. The document explains the very elemental way to use what many call a correlation chart - that's why its called a primordial. Bago didnt even know what it was at the time. Clowns like mark and forester all jumped on the bandwagon, and none of them knew the first thing about my methods. Morons like bago will call anything associated with me a scam - they dont tell you that correlation charts are the basis of forester's computers, mark's computers, and visual ballistics - of course they dont want to say that because it doesn't support their claims that I'm a scammer.

All truth will be revealed eventually, and I have absolutely no doubt of this. Truth is so much more powerful than utter rubbish.

PS - I've been told Bago, Forester and Mark (under fake name as usual) are continuing to attack me on one of the other forums. The three stooges at it again. Stomp your feet and state your cases all you like guys, but sooner or later you are all going to be very embarrassed. Perhaps that's the reason why they all go on and on instead of having a more mature "we will see" attitude - they are scared of what's around the corner.

Hi Steve,

Are your systems/methods good? Outstanding? Average? Usless?

That is the question for me.

You have indeed been subjected to an awful lot of vitriol and malicious comment during the few years I've been attending the forums. The real shame of it is that most if not all the comment is unqualified and inspired a lynch mob mentality which has nothing to do with fair play or justice. I was and remain keenly interested in the challenge and presumed that the more senior members who know and trust Lanky implicitly would join in the spirit of the project with constructive comment and suggestions. That was a mistake, a very big mistake on my part. Quite a few of the one liner comments displayed extreme prejudice and a refusal to even consider the possibility that your systems are bona fide and everything you claim them to be. Bago's input/language at vls forum was disgraceful and should have been censored.

I was impressed by the fact that you took the initiative with the challenge, that was a bold move and indicates confidence and self belief.  Lanky would have told it like it is - we would all have been much wiser in the end.
It is a shame that his health does not allow him to continue with the challenge. He is a man of integriy, courage and compassion. A great choice to test the systems in the first place.

Where is the challenge now? How many members of all the forums really want to know the truth? Does it suit the administration of the other forums better to have you casted as some kind of arch villain selling faulty goods?  Is it compatible for them to have a senior member test and maybe endorse your systems fully on the one hand, and give free rein to a foul mouthed scumbag like Bago to slander, insult and villify you on the other hand?


I am still in the dark regarding your systems, but I have no doubt about the courage and honesty of original challenge.



                                                                     Best regards

Hi Coolpaddy, it really is a relief to see there are "reasonable" people on forums. The reality is the Internet, and certainly gambling forums are full of absolute morons. You said:

Quoted Text

Quite a few of the one liner comments displayed extreme prejudice and a refusal to even consider the possibility that your systems are bona fide and everything you claim them to be.

Absolutely. It is not mere ignorance though. For example, I announce another public demo and this challenge, and the three stooges come out of the gates attacking me - talk about desperate and scared. On GG there was forester, mark (under fake name as usual) and of course Bago. As I have said many times, these three are not interested in the truth because is would make them look stupid. They twist information enormously to suit themselves and proclaim it is the truth.

Consider for a moment what kind of people are we dealing with. There is Bago with the mind of a child, and he is barely out of his teens. He acts like his 8 years old though. In his last post he said to me "HAHAHAHA YOU ARE TOAST STEFANO! SAY HELLO TO YOUR CATS ROLLING ON YOUR FUCKING OLD WHEEL AND YOUR BLACK LABRADOR HAHAHAHA!!!!LOSERRRRR!!!!" I mean really, I don't think he understand how much of an idiot he makes of himself. Then there's forester who I've spoken to once man to man (well I tried) to explain the truth in detail, and I've sent him numerous emails - he acted like a child and completely distorted information. He is a liar and twists information to suit himself. One example is he blantly lies to people telling them I offered to buy his algorithms. He is an absolute bullshit artist. Where did this claim originate? I asked if he would like to partner and attack casinos together - as part of the partnership, we would collaborate and share information. Is that offering to buy his algorithms? Hell no. I told him his algorithms were simplistic, and the only thing good about them is they dealt with clicking errors well - in fact better than my computer at the time because my algorithms were designed for the hybrid and precise timing instrumentation. Another example of Forester twisting information: on roulettesystemreviews.com I had a review of his computer, which was reasonably positive - the review was based not on me having his computer, but the concept of visual ballistics being s valid principle. The review clearly stated at the time I didnt have his computer. Then I was sent his IQE6 for free by an unhappy purchaser, I found what nonsense it was. I didn't care about updating the review because I had better things to do - if I really wanted to harm him I would have published my findings a long time before I had his rubbish. But when forester started making bullshit claims, I updated the review. Forester lies saying I changed the review to negative as if everything I said was a lie. But even Barnett confirmed it all too. Forester wants everyone to think I am lying about his device, but the difference between the two reviews is one was written when I didnt have IQE6, and one was written when I was given it free. Perhaps this is one of the reasons he's so pissed off at me, but pissed off or not, he lets his discontent get in the way of truth, just like the others do.

Did my computer ever give random predictions like Forester claims? Hell no - doing the different diamond test, all predictions were within a 8-12 pocket arc - this isnt bad, and to get any edge at all it needs to be in about an 18 pocket arc. Mark's computer is all over the place. With Forester's IQE6 you cant even see the prediction with enough accuracy. The hybrid doing the test is within 1 pocket arc, without the player even needing to looking at the wheel. But later my standard computer algorithms were modified to be more suitable for manual clicking - the result is all predictions are within a 3 pocket arc. Forester is absolutely full of it. Even after I corrected him about the most basic features of my computer, he completely ignored it although the truth was as plain as day. Why? Because it made him look like an idiot that really had no idea what he was talking about - it was obvious he never even saw my computer and merely passed on misunderstandings from others like Bago. He went on and on during a phone call about players of mine he knew. He refused to give names of course, but I narrowed it down to specific players and I kept asking him repeatedly to ask the players for himself what they thought. My point is he really had no idea that the players he was referring to have every confidence that my computers are what I claim - he of course ignored my request to ask the players for himself. There is one exception though of course - his croatian friend who broke the contracts and got exactly what he should have expected. And then there is of course Mark, the one who claims I live with my parents next to a homeless hostel, oh and then I lived in cheap rented accommodation, on and then I lived at 2 warrior crt lilydale. Bago simply repeated these claims. Even Forester jumped on the bandwagon saying I lived in a cheap area. None of them have the vaguest idea where I live. See http://www.roulettecomputers.com/rent.jpg and contact the real estate agent if you want. what about Bago? No doubt still lives at home with his parents. Bago was selling his own systems before - even Forester will verify this. A big wealthy man with his sound knowledge of roulette? Nope. And Mark? We already know his girlfriend kicked him out of the house and he literally ran off to Norway with the babysitter - this was all confirmed when the police visited his old residence. He claimed to own the house, but never owned even a part of it. It's all at http://www.genuinewinner.com/markhowe.htm - as for warrior crt, so do I pay $450 rent/week to live there, a nice high rent, or am I just the landlord? Take your pick, but either way is in my favor as I'm either wealthy enough to pay such high rent, or wealthy enough to own the property. Truth is I own it, and Mark obtained the address when attempting to deceive my wife and I, but he didnt realize I never release my home address and I use the warrior crt property with a mail redirection service. As for forester and his residence, his address has been published but I really dont care. I honestly dont care about where these people live and it's not even relevant. So why do I even mention this? Because these 3 criticize a property I own and claim it is proof of anything, although the information is wrong anyway - after all it's from mark howe, the most accurate source of information, right? I am extremely tempted to show inside my residence, but it really is none of anyone's business. There are photos released of me and/or my wife, and people like mark say it's all cheap stuff in there. Sure, the Sony Bravia in the background - real cheap stuff. They assume it is my residence though, which it is not. I'm surprised especially Mark doesn't take a photo of a $200 Datsun and claim it is my car - if he did, Forester and Bago would jump on the bandwagon like idiots too, because the claim would suit them - whether or not it's the truth. Anyway, as said previously the 3 stooges will always continue to attack me and they are not interested in the truth. They will always come up with excuses.

PS - I'll have the new wheel today. As for the other wheel and Bago's claims that it is easily beaten, anyone can see the drop zones in the videos online and see they are no stronger than the average wheel in today's casinos. With Bago's extensive experience that he claims to have, he would know this. As for my claims of hit rates of 1 in 15 on starburst wheels, they are accurate. Bago doesnt believe it is possible because he looks only at ball behavior and resulting scatter by assuming the wheel is the same speed, and ball bounce is the same every time. So he doesnt know different wheel speeds make the ball behave differently. Real expert of you Bago. My computer deals with different ball behavior with different wheel speeds. Speaking of which, forester's computer needs manual creation of scatter charts - real covert there. Mark's latest computers are the same - no in-built scatter charts. Their computers are not exactly the best money can buy - that is why I was sent both of their computers for free. My computers have the typical scatter charts plus something much better that enables the player to bet in the optimal sector based on wheel speed and the actual ball behavior at specific speeds. Thats one of the many differences between our technology. Let's not get into other areas like how other computers still need you to look at the wheel - the differences are profound yet these morons have the audacity to claim their rubbish is superior. i can scarcely begin to tell you how many problems their computers have. They all stupidly assume the wheel will strike the rotor where the ball reaches a certain speed. They dont even take into account mild-drop zones. Forester's hardware cannot even hold the data to beat modern wheels. He even admitted recently his computer cant beat the modern wheels. He says it's impossible. Perhaps for his computer, not for mine. Given the simplicity of his algorithms it's really not surprising. He and his misled followers on his forum really have a lot to learn - even my system (no electronics) can perform better on many wheels that his computer and I intend to prove this. As for mark's computer, it really is something that can be written in a matter of hours - it's not just poor like forester's, it is an absolute scam. Everyone that attend the next public demo will see this first-hand.

Hi Steve,
Check your PM box over at VLS.
Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Ronjo, thanks and I'll respond in a few minutes via email.

Just letting everyone know I now have the new wheel. Today it is being tested for bias etc, and will be certified as acceptable or not acceptable for use in Australian casinos. Why? Because clowns like Bago will say the wheel was biased or some similar rubbish. With certification, it will be his word against the authorities. He wont have any legs to stand on. I have no doubt it will pass the tests as I've already done my own tests. Even IF it were not certified, anyone seeing the spins and inspecting the wheel will know quite clearly that the wheel perfectly represents the average casino wheel. On the scale of difficulty to beat, it is one of the more difficult to beat wheels. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being almost impossible to beat and 10 being extremely easy, it is about a 7-8. And this wheel is going to be beaten with a custom variant - sorry bago, you really have absolutely no idea.

And Bago, I know you read here in anticipation of your embarrassment. If you really think I care about rubbish you post about 2 warrior crt, keep an eye on what happens to forester's web site soon. Am I upset about it? Hang on, it already happened:



And Forester who is also reading this, I have no interest in attacking you or your site - the world doesnt revolve around you and I told you I want nothing to do with you. But if you host rubbish, I'll have your site taken down. YOU DID IT TO YOUR OWN SITE. I ONLY DEFENDED MYSELF. You have no idea how easily I could sue you and the others, but I have better things to do. Dont push it, or you will be paying the price, not me. Mark already took it past the point where I'm not giving him another chance and he is going to be charged. In reality I dont care about publishing even of the primordials document, but anyone doing so gives me ability to do things. Remember I'm the one who has been trying to teach you the truth and work things out like men. I'm not the one who immaturely tried to sell a primordials document for $1 on ebay - I could even have you charged if I pursued it - i just dont have an interest in harming you. You, and even mark and Bago have no clue about my options to deal with you. It makes much better sense to me though to focus just on validating my own claims, then everything else falls into place - as a result you get embarrassed but you cant blame me for that.

If this makes you want to try harder to harm me, again, then I assure you it will have similar results. You all should understand I have ZERO interest in harming any of you. I have tried to be friends and associates with all three of you - Bago, Forester and Mark. And you all only busted your butt to harm me. Who was the one emailing you trying to make peace, trying to call you all to sort out the issues man to man? And who were the ones attacking me relentlessly. Especially you mark, you bust your butt to try and harm me when I want nothing to do with any of you and have said this many times. If you just kept to yourself, it would be better for you. But when you try to harm me you fall flat on your face, get more pissed off and try harder - the cycle repeats and you appear to have a learning disability - all three of you repeat this process. For those who dont know, Bago argues the curtains in some of my videos are the same as the curtains from the view outside 2 warrior crt. Bago you just have no idea about the history of 2 warrior crt. Even mark would tell you I once used it as a meeting place for people. How would he know? He contacted both my wife and I when we advertised equipment for sale via the trading post. He made bogus requests to meet us, and we made it very clear we didnt live there and a time needed to be scheduled. Remember that dear Mark? It was a nice try though. Like I said, based on http://www.roulettecomputers.com/rent.jpg and asking the real estate agent, you have to conclude I am either wealthy enough to pay a large $450/week rent, or to own the property and be the landlord. Take your pick - either way it is in my favor. Bago publishes photos of the property like a little kid trying to upset me. My dear friends who bust their butts trying to upset me like kids in a schoolyard, do your best. But at the end of the day, my claims are accurate, my technology is exactly what I claim, that's what this is all about and the simple truth is INEVITABLE. So do what you want, make whatever claims you want, but nothing, and I mean nothing will stop the truth from being revealed. Especially Bago, you make yourself look very desperate. Again I suggest you grow up, because what you are doing now is going to make you look like an even bigger idiot soon. Three stooges, you are absolutely pathetic in your attempts to harm me. Like I once told Mark, I truly live a blessed life and am very appreciative of that - you do a lot more damage to your own lives than you can ever do to mine.

To the three stooges, I'll say it again: the universe has an in-built "balance" mechanism. Balance always occurs, always. It may be in roundabout ways, but it always gets there and is inevitable. The more you try to harm me, the more you end up harming yourself. It is not mere hippie-talk, it is absolutely real.

My god what has all this got to do with my roulette computers and system? Absolutely nothing! Nothing at all. This is just a snippet of these morons and the petty things they try and do to upset me. Many of my players follow this rubbish and can't understand how I put up with all this. Patience, a lot of patience, and knowledge of the accuracy of my own claims, and understanding that eventually truth comes out. So it's a bit of a waiting game.

Ronjo is interested in taking part in the validations, and so is Cloud from GG (cloud is one of the people that visited mark howe). I'll speak to them both in detail soon. No word yet from Iwonder though so I emailed him again asking for an update.

By the way Bago, is your desperate outburst about 2 warrior crt because I said you probably still lived with your parents? You really need to grow up. Nothing you can do or say can really harm me - that is reality. You and the others need to live with that and get on with your own lives.

Steve, send me some pictures of the new wheel.

I'll publish them soon. If you want to see what a mk7 looks like for now, see the john huxley website.

FORESTER: For the record, I did not want to have your site shut down. I do not want to harm you or anyone. But if simply defending myself means your site is shut down, that is simply your own doing. Same with shutting down your email address. I gave you ample warning. If it makes you all want to harm me more, as usual when I simply defend myself, so be it. But be aware of my other options to deal with you - I already have what I need. Don't push it. Is it all worth it? Dont you think you'd be better off having nothing to do with me, and I have nothing to do with you? That's all I've been asking you and Mark, but you can't let it go and get on with things.

As for RSR and the review of your computer, bare in mind the following:

Quoted Text

On roulettesystemreviews.com I had a review of his computer, which was reasonably positive - the review was based not on me having his computer, but the concept of visual ballistics being s valid principle. The review clearly stated at the time I didnt have his computer. Then I was sent his IQE6 for free by an unhappy purchaser, I found what nonsense it was. I didn't care about updating the review because I had better things to do - if I really wanted to harm him I would have published my findings a long time before I had his rubbish. But when forester started making bullshit claims, I updated the review. Forester lies saying I changed the review to negative as if everything I said was a lie. But even Barnett confirmed it all too. Forester wants everyone to think I am lying about his device because of things he was saying about me, but the difference between the two reviews is one was written when I didnt have IQE6, and one was written when I was given it free.

I dont care about the review, or Mark's review either. I would happily remove it all if you would just quit attacking me. I have no interest in any of you, but if you bullshit about me, I will tell the truth about you and your simplistic computers. I've given up on trying to get along with you all, you are like children. Instead I just want nothing to do with any of you and it's been that way for some time. But none of you will let that be the case.

So don't go around bullshitting to people saying I changed my review because I was unhappy with things you were saying. Also I can't believe how full of sh*t you are about claiming I offered to buy your algorithms - remember how I told you the only thing your computer does well is dealing with timing errors, but the rest was too simplistic? I made it very clear what I thought of your algorithms. It would have to be your biggest lie, and morons like bago believed you - or maybe they didnt care if it were true or not, and just published it anyway because it suited them. When I read that I lost all faith that you weren't full of it like the others.

Yesterday I tested both your FF and Mark's latest computer against the mk7 wheel. Results after 60 spins in both cases were virtually completely random. With your FF Forester, the piezo beeps were about 4 seconds before the ball falls so I could be accurate enough by seeing the raw prediction - even with 4 seconds to go it was very poor. If it were any earlier where the ball is faster, especially if I wasnt virtually on top of the wheel, forget it - just a waste of time. And you used to tell people the zap was better than audio predictions - thats what liars do. With my computer, the edge was clear, and this wasn't even the hybrid. Am I lying? Tell that to the others that will see it on the mk7. While I could censor footage from other demos and release it, it is hours of footage to go through so I prefer to just watch what information I release in the next demo to make editing easier. You can claim that demos never have and never will take place all you like, but you really have no idea, and I'm eagerly looking forward to it all. Once again, I never had any interest to harm or embarrass any of you - look back at everything that pissed you off - were they deliberate and malicious attacks like what you have all done against me, or was I just defending myself and you did it to yourself?

And Bago, you really do have no idea what you're talking about. When you attacked the primordials and said to me Piere's Vis a Vis method is much better, and I just told you Pierre's Vis a Vis is simply multiple peaks on the primordial chart. Yes, you really understood what you were doing didn't you? That's merely one example, and i could spend a day going over details of what you either misunderstood or had no idea about, but you really are a waste of time, and anyone that cares to conduct thorough research including asking all the questions will know that.

As for all of you, Mark, Forester and Bago, again absolutely nothing you do or say will stop the truth from being known. It is absolutely inevitable. Perhaps that will be the final embarrassment for you, perhaps not. Either way I know none of you will stop attacking me, but at least everyone else will have an idea of how full of it you all are - of how you twist facts around and make them negative, how all of you are not interested in the truth - only harming me. I've simply given up on all of you as reasonable human beings.

PS - Mark, I'm still waiting to proceed with the challenge regarding the hybrid. You know, how you said you and a newspaper offered me $1M to prove it exists? Yes you really are the worst of all. How many sites of yours have I shut down? You've got to understand if you are doing something wrong, then sites can be shut down - very simple. It's not like I'm hacking your sites or anything - you are breaking the law which is why the hosts shut them down. When I have time I'll address the other sites.

This is what just came into my email inbox:

"your f*cked I will cut you to peices and rape your a** with a rusty shovel and tear your insides out and make you eat them"

Sorry for publishing this vulgarity. This is common in my inbox. I wouldn't put it past any of the stooges to make such a comment, but it is more likely to be bago or mark. There are a lot of morons on the internet so it might not have been any of them, who knows. Whoever it was, you mispelled "you're", and "pieces". You are implying I own an adjective. Moreover, an "a**" is a donkey. You don't know where my anus resides, but I wish you the best in all your endeavors. If you think a proxy protects your identity, you need to understand how data is routed - perhaps start by researching the fbi carnivore program. It takes extensive experience to be truly untraceable. Either way it goes to victoria police who pass it onto the AFP high tech crimes division who do what is needed to find the originating IP. I know this because of emails Mark has sent me and the ongoing police case still being prepared by the authorities before it goes overseas. You give me the tools I need, and I dont understand that.

Steve if you are cocky now. Why not show your computer beating the new wheel.

Vincent, dont confuse cocky with confident. if I appear "cocky", it is because I have put up with abuse and attacks from absolute morons, for years. Everything from utter rubbish, twisted facts, copyright violations, harassment, and even death threats. You don't see what I've had to put up with. If I take a bit of satisfaction from taking a bit of a stand, I think I'm entitled to that. If I come across as "cocky", it is not my intention - I am speaking to the stooges, not the general public. The stooges are the ones who have been saying for years my computers are inferior when it is far from the case. If you had put up with what I've put up with, for years, would you feel the need to just say what you really think, or would you still be nice as pie to even the biggest morons as I've been for years? Most people would have flown off the handle with 1% of what I've put up with, but I even tried to speak to them man to man, on numerous occasions - it just didn't work and it was clear they didn't care about the truth because it didn't suit them.

I have already done a video of testing. I'll publish it in due course. but I may do a different one where trade secrets are not released. The video I did yesterday was more for my players.

It appears Forester has created a new site under a different domain, but publishing much the same information that had his website shut down.

FORESTER, you just dont get it. I dont care about you or your site, except when you post rubbish. If you publish rubbish anywhere, I will have it removed. If you are a repeat offender, I can do so much more about you and you are headed that way. Is it worth it? I suggest you just forget me and get on with your own work, just as I'm trying to do regarding you. You are making the same mistakes mark did - I defend myself, you get angry, you try harder, and you harm yourself more - one big cycle. Forester, I am not kidding - don't push it. You may not even be aware of my options to deal with you and if I take them, will it be better for you? I am not attacking your sites and dont care about you - I'm only defending myself against your lies.

Based on what you said recently, you now appear far more determined to harm me. No matter what your attempts are to harm me, what will matter at the end of the day is the very simple truth will come out. It will be about many things, but primarily your lies about my computer and your rubbish claims that predictions are random - it is inevitable and I've been saying this from the start. What will you say when you are confronted with irrefutable proof? Will you just say sorry and admit you were wrong? No of course not. You, Bago and Mark can go for it all you like, but truth will speak so much louder and everyone will know how full of it you all are. What you are doing now is setting you up for even greater embarrassment.

By all means continue your campaign to harm me, but again you should be aware you are giving me even more tools to deal with you. The days are over where I tried to be civil with you, but again I have no interest in harming you. Bare in mind what you do is what you bring on yourself - you are a fool and dont seem to see this. You appear blinded by your ego. You wont find me on a mission to harm you, but you are on a mission to harm me. It is quite childish, and I'm only asking you to act like an adult.

FORESTER: Just to let you know, I'm going to have your new site shut down too. Like I said before, it's not like I'm hacking your sites - you are doing many things wrong and it is easy to have your site shut down. Dont host rubbish, and your sites wont be shut down. Is it really that hard to understand?

BAGO: You are just an idiot. Like the others, in time everyone will know how you have no idea what you're talking about. The other players consider you to be an absolute moron - perhaps I should publish here what many of them have said about you. You really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not concerned with anything you, mark or forester will do, because there is nothing significant you can do. But if makes you happy, continue publishing rubbish on pages that either no-one will see, or will be shut down before you know it.

Honestly all three of you are unbelievable clowns and as I keep saying, I really am looking forward to what's coming.

Hi Steve,
I tried calling you today 5-00am SA time which is about 1-00pm Australian time but you were unable to take the call.would you be in tomrrow if I called the same time or should I call earlier in the morning.
Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Ronjo, 1pm tomorrow my time is fine. Hopefully chat to you then.

FORESTER: Your NEW web host said "Thanks we don't allow such material on our servers and I will send this to the client and give him 24 hours to remove it from our servers, if he does not comply we will terminate his account."

That was 25 hours ago.

I'll say it again: if you host rubbish, I'll have your sites brought down. Get it through your head - I dont care about you or harming you, but dont host rubbish and I wont bring your sites down. I'll also make it perfectly clear to you that the aspects used to bring your sites down are only a fragment of possible methods to bring down your sites. Dont make the mistake of thinking DMCA is all there is. Remember I'm not hacking your sites or anything - you are breaking the law. Dont host rubbish and dont break the law, and your sites wont be brought down. Is it really that hard to understand? I've shut down most of mark's sites for similar reasons, and I'll deal with his others when I have time. Contrary to what he thinks, they really make bugger all impact on my life but it doesnt mean I'll put up with them.

Anyway Forester, we can keep doing this, but is it really worth it for you? Once again, nothing you or anyone will do is going to stop the truth coming out, and all three of you are going to look like A1 morons. Of course you'll blame me and try to harm me more as usual. You have the same learning disability as mark.

Everyone, just a recap and update on everything: When Lanky withdrew due to health issues, I asked Victor from VLS forum who he suggested might be an appropriate person to take his place. Specifically I needed to find someone that is well-known and trusted by the other forum members. After all, it makes no sense to have a brand new forum member. Ronjo was on the list, and I just spoke to him on the phone.

Ronjo appears to be an ideal match. He is from South Africa. He is an experienced visual ballistics player. He understands what he is talking about so I have no doubt he will be able to competently conduct testing of the computer. Before I proceed with him, I just need to do some background checking but I'm sure it will be fine. I will then send him a computer to evaluate. I'll send him footage of the mk7 wheel, the other wheel, and a test dvd for him to do additional testing. He may also apply the computer at one of his local casinos. While he will be able to verify my every claim, what matters most is actually one of the most basic things for him to verify. Specifically, he will verify my claims about the 6 and 3 pocket arc. Most of you reading this will know what this means, but I'll explain again just in case:

Forester, Bago and Mark all claim my computer gives random predictions when you attempt to predict the same spin repeatedly on dvd, but use different reference points. The theory behind this is that even when different reference points are used, the prediction will be in the same area. Forester claims this is the hold grail of testing to determine a computer's accuracy, which is absolute nonsense but we'll do the test anyway. My claim is that after the initial sample with my computer, all predictions are within a 6 pocket arc. But when the computer is fully tuned, they should all be within a 3 pocket arc. Perhaps not ALL, but certainly most. Ronjo will also do a series of tests to determine whether I merely cheated by loading the phone only with specific numbers. The tests will be explained in detail in due course, and to anyone that understands them, it will be clear that my claims are accurate.

As for the system, because Ronjo understands roulette prediction well, I only need to explain to him some of the basics of my system. From this alone, he should know whether or not my techniques are the real thing, or if I'm just full of it. But we'll do the computer validations first, then the system. For the sake of being thorough, Ronjo will be shown more than what he needs to see - same with the computer. Perhaps it is overkill, but no matter.

Before too long, any reasonable person will know how full of it Forester, Bago and Mark are. But like I keep saying, they will never admit they were wrong. But I don't need them to because everyone following this challenge will know it. The truth will be clear no matter how much the stooges stomp their feet. Certainly they will be embarrassed and will try harder to harm me, but that has never been my intention.

FORESTER, In light of the discussions with your new web host, I'll remind you of the following: I'm not in the least bit interested in harming you or your website(s). Remove the offending material, or your site gets shut down - we can continue to do this again and again with different hosts. It will waste both of our time, and your money. You are probably telling people I attacked your sites our of spite or something, when it is simply not the case. You have misled so many people about me, but soon that will be rectified. I tried to make peace with you and tried to speak with you man to man, but you are not a reasonable person and didn't want to listen to the truth. What does it mean when someone doesn't want to listen to the truth? That the truth is not important to them.

Your host is calling my solicitors today. Whatever they want to verify is up to them but leads to the same place.

You go around telling people you know 6 people that are unhappy with my computer. Let's see: Bago who used the computer on a skipping dvd player, your croatian friend who month after month kept requesting access codes so i naturally assumed there was no problem, and besides he never complained about any problems - but when I heard of his contract breach, I banned him. Too bad if he's your friend and you want to harm me for banning him - he broke the contracts and got what he should have expected. Then there are two others that wont be mentioned for their privacy - and I asked you on the phone repeatedly to ASK THEM FOR YOURSELF WHAT THEY THINK OF MY COMPUTER. One of them even wrote a review on it and he is very happy with it. The other feels exactly the same. I said on the phone to ask them for yourself and that you had no idea what you were talking about - you just ignored that on the phone, remember? You may know of less than 1% of my players, but you are basically using your knowledge of their existence to lie about them and their experience with me and my computers.

All you and people like mark and bago are interested in is harming me. Really I dont want to harm you, and I do wish you the best, but you are making it impossible for yourself. It is no secret I consider you to be a complete "dickhead", along with bago and mark. But that doesnt mean I want conflict which is why I tried to work things out with you.

Mark my good friend, if you think I dont know who you are on this forum, and who you are when you call me via phone under fake names, well, think again. Indeed I play along with your phone calls - they are all recorded. You are absolutely the biggest clown I've ever known - you beat Bago and Forester combined, and that's quite a feat - you should be proud.

By the way, thankyou for verifying with even clarity you contacted my wife under a fake name. You brought Forester into the investigation and made what had happened even clearer. You should have known from the start my wife and I knew exactly who you were when you said initially you were overseas. What was one of the last lines of the first email we wrote to you? How long have you been overseas for, right? Why do you think it was asked? I thought that might have given it away. Cheryl had been back in Australia for some time. You dont have the vaguest idea of our association with her. All the things you people do to try and discredit me, all along neglecting what really counts because that wouldn't be appropriate for you. I know why you did it all though Mark, because you were embarrassed when we found out your girlfriend kicked you out of the house, and you blamed it on me. No Mark, you were spending day in day out on your computer promoting your scam - that's why she kicked you out. Did you own the property? Nope. You didn't own even part of it. Was it a silver Ferrari in the driveway? Well, need I really go on about this? So I understand your motivations for trying to harm me, but all you did was reveal one of my assets - good job. Did you ever stop to think why we continued the conversations with you, but when it came to sending you bank statements we only stalled and continued to play along?

2 warrior crt is close to where I actually live, but it was a nice try. You stooges haven't any idea about my financial status, but if you want to focus on that, perhaps why dont you call the real estate agent and see who owns the property. At $450/week rent, not too bad is it? Would you like to know my overall income? No perhaps that would embarass you further and it's not even relevant anyway, as usual.

So boys, are we going to hang around playing who has the bigger bank account - or perhaps who has the bigger penis? Maybe later, but for now I'll focus on what counts.

Really to all of you, although to you guys it may seem nothing more than hippie-talk, I really do wish you all the best, truly. Doesnt mean I'm stopping police investigations though, that will teach you a bit of a lesson. You are absolute morons but I do sincerely wish you love and happiness in your life, and I do hope that perhaps in another life if there is such a thing, that we can all hang out together and play xbox and stuff. While that may sound contradictory, understand what I do is merely to defend myself, not to attack you. Also lighten up fellas - have a sense of humor about it all.

Here you go guys. It is the scientific measurement device for roulette computer effectiveness:



Let me guess, I need a bigger ruler, right?

Just a note it has been decided for sure that Ronjo will do testing. His computer is ready for shipping. I still may proceed with Cloud, who is one of people who actually visited Mark, but it is uncertain for now as Ronjo will cover everything anyway.

Not long now, my fury little friends... (Bago, Forester and Mark). By the way, did you guys want a photo of my curtains? I'm certain we can arrange it. Did you want some kind of validation that they are my curtains? They aren't barcoded or anything, but perhaps I could wave a friendly finger in front of them. I'm extremely tempted to send some photos, of a few things, but I think I'll wait for that.

MARK, you really never learn. Your website:



Once again, I do not want to harm any of you or your websites. But if you host rubbish, I will of course defend myself.

FORESTER: Your web host will explain to you why you can't even reference people like Bago, or your site will be shut down. Good thing I had those solicitors Mark kept saying I couldnt afford.

BAGO: Thanks for signing the contracts.

Look all of you. I truly don't want to harm anyone. But all of you are trying to so hard to harm me. All I want to do is let the truth be known. But you all go on and on about even irrelevant stuff. You even go on about a property I own. What on Earth has it got to do with anything relevant? Especially since I've even said on my website I didnt originally become wealthy from roulette playing. I am being honest with everyone, just as i have always been. In fact my wealth came from my companies such as site-promotion.com, and I've always said that. At least i didnt make some bullshit claim like mark who said he won GBP 8,000,000 before being banned. Yeah right, with a computer that does just about everything wrong - like you aimed to make a disaster. I was wealthy before I had developed my computers and systems. But of course now I have earned let's say more than enough from my own roulette teams. You should know even just the development of the hybrid cost probably more than all three of you earn a year (mark, bago, forester) but who cares? Let's stick to what's relevant ok? Or perhaps you dont because it doesnt suit you.

By the way Mark, another of your sites is coming down soon. I was going to just leave your sites for a bit longer as I had other things to do, but since you wanted to play games I changed my mind. You should understand that there are so many elements of your sites that enable them to be brought down. It's not like I'm hacking them - you are breaking the law. Dont blame me or your hosts, it is you. Idiots like Bago believed I gave him a refund because of information about him you posted on your sites in hopes he would make you remove it. No, I refunded him because he was a moron and I didnt want to deal with him. Even many other players kept saying they really didnt feel comfortable having him on the team. All bago did was give me another tool to bring down your rubbish sites. Perhaps now he understands the truth of the matter.

Anyway this is all a waste of time. Bago, keep using your expertise with roulette so you can move out of your parents house, or keep selling systems. Mark, perhaps take a drive in your Ferrari and Forester, you are a smart man but you are very ignorant and have showed so many times you either really have no idea what you are talking about, or just dont care about the truth. Perhaps a part of me still believe you have a bit of reason in you. We shall see your reaction to the end result here. Mark and Bago are a lost cause, but you are not far off either Forester. Still I hope one day we can all get along, but sadly i dont think realistically that will ever happen. Still sincerely though I do wish you all the best - all of you, even though you all want to stab me. Especially you Mark, I can feel your death rays from here.

FORESTER: your host says you're cooperating. Whether or not you're happy about it, thankyou. If you want me to remove any of my material, ask away. It's unlikely that we'll ever play xbox or shower together, but I hope we can at least be civil to each other. Out of the three of you, Forester you are the most reasonable but still you and I love each other much the same amount. Still though, I'm borderline between believing you deliberately lied, or that you sincerely didnt know what you were talking about. I mean even just the point about you not understanding the risk feature and wheel speed, even after I corrected you but you ignored it, makes me think you lied on purpose - either that or you just passed on a player's complete misunderstanding of the most basic feature. Even Bago had no idea how to make risk called 0% of the time - how well can you understand something if you dont understand even the basics?? Also like how you tried to tell me about my own players and what they thought - and I just pleaded with you to ask them yourself to confirm what i said - you ignored it. Overall I think it's a blend of ignorance and deliberate attacks, but hey it's better than Mark's rubbish. According to mark, i lived next to a homeless hostel. Boy his lies are funny.

MARK: Many months ago when we were negotiating removal of our websites about each other, although you agreed to remove your rubbish, you kept posting absolute trash under fake names, this time on youtube. It was clear you had no intentions of working things out like adults - like I said you are a lost cause and truly believe you are mentally ill with the rubbish you've said and tried to do. In addition you denied owning roulettesystemsexposed when even your host acknowledged your owned it. Take your web sites and the material all down voluntary, without me having to do it for you, then I'll remove my web sites too. Look I know what sites you own, you must have rocks in your head if you think otherwise - hang on, you do. Every email ever sent to each other was sent to the police so they could evaluate the situation. Know what was clear? For many months after you found out i also sold computers, you attacked me relentlessly on gamblers glen. In many emails I asked and asked you to stop, and told you I didnt want to waste time responding to your rubbish. You were telling people my computers were ineffective before I even released ONE. You and I know how bad the rubbish was you were saying. In all our email correspondence, it was clear I never posted anything about you until I got fed up with me asking you politely to stop posting nonsense - so you pushed it, not me. Prior to that the only reference I ever made to you was saying another computer I purchased was found to be quite ineffective. Was I lying? No mark, you know it was true - still is, even your latest version. You know this, so be a man and dont attack me for stating truth. You really are screwed up as far as I'm concerned, how your lies are not just lies, they are way over the top. You are also ignorant though and dont know what you are talking about - i have no intentions of bragging but you have no idea of wealth. In all, I believe you are just a lost cause mark. i would love to be proven wrong though.

And Bago my dear friend, I dont know if you are plain stupid or what. You never had any idea about anything. When other players were earning hundreds of thousands, you were still wondering what I meant about vis a vis and multiple peaks. You are not the type of person to admit you were wrong though. I've never known someone to be so convinced they were right when they were so wrong.

Can't we all just get along? While I would like that, again I dont think it's likely to happen. No matter what the outcome of the challenges, you will all attack me, but given the results, it will only make you all look desperate.

Bago issued a challenge to me that he can prove he doesnt live with his parents. Bago I just dont care. If I didnt know your date of birth, because of your immature behavior I honestly would not be surprised if less than 10 years ago you still wore nappies. Really you act 13, or close to. The only challenge that matters to me is this one here, because it is relevant. Go out and play roulette with the extensive experience and knowledge you profess to have.

Forester, you still havent removed much of the material. Your host will remind you to stop wasting everyone's time. Just get on with your own life. Regardless, soon the people you deceived will know all about your lies. And bago, everyone will know how you didnt even understand the most basic concepts. Mark, I better mention you too, my feelings are deep for you.

Any pictures of your "purchased" wheel?

Mark...7:



Excellent condition and like I said, it is being tested for bias and drop zones to Australian casino standards.

I've tested my standard computer on it, mark's computers and forester's IQE6. I have already done videos of the tests. IQE6 and Mark's computer were basically just as poor as each other - virtually random, just as Barnett found too. but the results were poor for different reasons. My computer produced very good results and you can analyze the video of testing for yourself and verify even when the ball didnt get a direct hit, the ball landed at least close to the prediction. Kinda hard to fake such obvious peaks. The tests of mark's and forester's computers have my clicks visible and all the startup procedures so it can be verified I didnt deliberately poorly apply them or something.

Forester says he wins in australian casinos. My arse he does, not with his computers unless he's playing a wheel with heavy drop zone. He claimed the dealer "screamed" at him asking him to not look at his wheels because he was winning too much. Do I really believe that? Um, no. If he drew that kind of attention and was actually winning, he'd be out the door in a tick. The bottom line is what they sell is complete rubbish and can only possibly be effective on older wheels, or with strong drop zones. But I'm not interested in harming you two, forester and mark. Just work on  your own computers instead of lying about mine. Like I have said from the beginning, you guys have your computers all wrong. The only thing mark does right is polynomials, if thats what he uses. Forester, you NEED polynomials for many reasons. Even the smallest air pressure variation may make the ball move 90 degrees extra in 30 mins, then you can say bye-bye to accuracy because you have no way of knowing ball behavior. Mark I explained to you what my algorithms do once. I would honestly given you both the algorithms if you werent such morons. But forester your hardware wouldnt be able to support them anyway. I know I know, you think you know better. Yes you said zap was best before too. Mark you need to address a hardware problem before you can get anywhere near accurate enough. Based on your mobile prophecy version, it was clear you didnt do even close to required mods.

Also Ronjo, as per our phone conversation, i'll send you video of tests on the new wheel and you can apply the computer for yourself so see you get much the same results. You can also begin application from anywhere in the dvd. You can use 100 different spins to do the different diamond test. You can do whatever you want. I bet would honestly bet my life that an experienced player that conducted any testing they want could validate my claims. I also bet my life that the same tests with both foresters and mark's computers would show virtually random results.

Cool, video?

As explained earlier, the videos done show elements that are trade secrets - they are for players only. I will do "public" videos later some time after I get the wheel back - it is being tested and I'll have a report about it pertaining to australian standards.

Hi Steve,

Did you recieve the documents?I cant wait to get started,

Ronjo.

Hi Ronjo, assuming it was your fax, all of the pages were completely blank. Not sure what the problem was - I'll email you a copy of what I received. I cant wait for you to get started too!

Also I've created a new website:

http://www.roulettewars.com

It's far from complete though. some of you may find it funny, but others may not. And Mark, dont fret about the photo, try to see the light side of it, although I still do think you are a bonafide nutcase.

And seriously guys, lighten up.

Hi Ronjo,

I'm looking forward to your evaluation of the systems. This time last year you were at the heart of the charity competition as adjudicator together with Lanky. I couldn't wish for two more upstanding and knowledgeable people to conduct a fair and unbiased trial on a system which has intrigued me and many others for so long. It's a shame that Lanky is unable to continue this time also, but I know that your skills and judgement will ensure a successful trial.


                                                                      Best regards

Hi Steve,

Sorry about the delay,I have sent them again,let me know if they came through.

Best Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Coolpaddy,

Great to hear from you again,yes I assure you and the rest of the roulette community,that I will try my best to do this evaluation to the best of my ability,and people that are close to me know that my integrity is important to me and always kept intact.

Best Regards,
Ronjo.

Quoted Text

I assure you and the rest of the roulette community,that I will try my best to do this evaluation to the best of my ability,and people that are close to me know that my integrity is important to me and always kept intact.

Never ever been any doubt about that My Friend.

Your as straight up & down as they come Mate & You tell it like it is.

Your the right person for the evaluation My Mate.

God Bless You Cobber.

Lanky.

Hi Ronjo, fax received, thanks. Also you are probably going to find a lot of people will attack you. Actually probably not a lot of people, I mean people like Bago (Tony Duhamel) who spend day after day on forums attacking people to defend his ego. And of course mark howe and his many fake names. There are a few people that really have something to lose from all this. I suggest ignore any pressure they may put on you and just tell it like it is.

Whoever attacks you and your findings will probably accuse you of of being incompetent, or that I somehow used smoke and mirrors to fool you. For example, when it comes to the different diamond test, forester has already said I could just load the same numbers into the phone to cheat. Of course that's a stupid claim because you can do whatever test you want to show it's not the case. But anyway, what I want to do is send you a dvd with a TOP view of the wheel, so you can do the test with virtually any spin, rather than just one spin. The new wheel is being tested for possible bias etc and I should hear back this week. When I get the wheel back I'll do the top view video and send you everything.

Also Lanky, Iwonder seems to have fallen off the face of the planet. Please contact him and ask him to respond to me. Weeks have passed and he isnt responding to my emails. I called him at work, and just left a message, but I dont want to intrude by calling him at work. At the same time, I'm not going to put up with lack of response for weeks. It's not a problem if he hasn't had time to do any testing, but if he hasnt got time, then I want him to send the phone back so I can send to Ronjo. As I'm low on stock and someone else now has the phone you returned, I may need Iwonder's phone back to send to Ronjo.

Hello. I would just like to say I recent met steve. I live in NZ and flew over for a day to meet him and see a few things. My opinion of him is he is a very sincere guy. I am a good judge of character and no mans fool. I know I am not known here which rules out me being part of this challenge. Do not believe the stuff going on about steve. he really is a great guy. Ronjo I hope you get to meet him so you can tell the truth about everything. It really is quite bad how so many people have attempted to shoot him down. i wanted to say my part and wish i could say more. I look forward to seeing the outcome of all this but I know first hand what the truth all is.

Thanks hawk.

Ronjo & everyone: as Forester claims the ultimate test of a roulette computer's effectiveness is the different diamond test, it will be a major point to focus on for Ronjo. Lanky and Iwonder had concerns that doing such a test on my dvd may not be considered "independent". So as I stated above, I'll send Ronjo a dvd of spins where the wheel can be seen from the top. That way, he can choose any spin he wants to do the test. It only needs to be a spin where the ball doesnt do something like skip, but it would be very rare anyway.

No matter what tests Ronjo does, they will be criticized by people like Bago and Forester. So what we need to do is figure out possible ways I might be able to cheat in such a test, and close the possibilities so the validations are clearly authentic. In other words, I dont want the morons to have a leg to stand on or to have any potential excuse. Anyone have any additional suggestions?

NP steve!

I add that I thought I knew a few things about roulette, until I met you. Your knowledge of roulette is astounding. You once said people that know you well say you might be the worlds foremost expert in roulette. I believe it now I really do.

In the few hours I met with him he taught me more about patterns of wheels than I imagined would be possible. I do wish I could say more to others but steve really is the real deal. I hope you see everything I saw Ronjo.

Quoted Text

Also Lanky, Iwonder seems to have fallen off the face of the planet. Please contact him and ask him to respond to me. Weeks have passed and he isnt responding to my emails. I called him at work, and just left a message, but I dont want to intrude by calling him at work. At the same time, I'm not going to put up with lack of response for weeks. It's not a problem if he hasn't had time to do any testing, but if he hasnt got time, then I want him to send the phone back so I can send to Ronjo. As I'm low on stock and someone else now has the phone you returned, I may need Iwonder's phone back to send to Ronjo.

Hi Steve I made contact with Iwonder today Mate.
There has been a very good excuse for any delay from his side.
In fact one of His employees was in an accident & the news is not good.

He is going to contact You Mate.

Lanky.

Thanks Lanky.

MARK: Like I said would happen, three more of your websites are now down. Really I'm not interested in your sites or harming you, but I'll just keep taking your websites down if you host rubbish. You can move to a new host each time. But each time you do it, you run the risk of losing your domains for good. I suggest read the policies on repeat offenders. Just get on with your own business instead of trying to harm me. I've been trying to mind my own business for years and just get on with work.

UPDATE: I've been informed Iwonder is sending me back the phone today, so I'll have it some time next week.

Anyway it still amazes me petty rubbish the stooges are doing to try and get at me. IN JUST THE LAST 24HRS:

1. Bago has complained to my numerous web hosts saying it is highly illegal for me to post his name. Firstly Tony, you have been posting your name all over the internet professing to know all about me and that I'm a scammer. I dont care about this though because it's all just a matter of time until everyone knows how full it you were. If you're concerned you'll look like an incompetent idiot, consider no-one likes you anyway. And secondly, read the contracts you signed Tony - who I deal with is my intellectual property. I'm not interested in harming you at all Tony - consider everything carefully. All I'm doing is defending myself, and to defend myself I need to identify who you are. Why your name? Because Mark publishes it all over his websites like a rash. That's your fault, not mine, remember? But the fact that he does that actually gives me a tool to shut his sites down, so maybe I should thank you. It's not like I'm publishing your drivers license or address, but I've had to send copies of the contracts to my hosts so they know what a moron you are. I send the same copies of the contracts to mark's hosts to shut his sites down too, and Forester's sites.

2. Forester has told his host I am to deal with him directly. I warned the host it was not a good idea. After all Miro, you aren't exactly someone of integrity. When I emailed him, he complained to my host saying it was spam. What a complete moron. Again Miro, I'm not interested in harming you. You stomp your feet like a child because you want to get the better of me. I'm just not interested. If you want it to end, just stop publishing rubbish. Is it really that hard?

3. Mark put his websites back online using different hosts, but with the same material..... so they're about to go offline again.

Honestly you three really are the three stooges. Consider everything I have ever done to you that you are so bitter about. Like shutting down websites, email accounts etc. Did I really do all that, or was it all just my reaction to your attacks to defend myself? Havent you guys learnt yet? I'm not just interested in attacking you clowns.

Especially Forester and Mark: you two go on and on about how you know people that are unhappy with my products. But hey, I'm the one who was actually sent 1 each of your computer's for free by unhappy purchasers. Do you want me to publish the photos of them again? You know if I really wanted to waste time embarassing you morons, I would publish videos of your computers being demonstrated, and going into absolute detail, I could even publish emails from people that complained to me about your devices but why bother? Especially you mark, I have plenty of forwarded emails, but why dont i publish them? Because I'm not interested in attacking you or anyone - only defending myself. This challenge is ample. Another fact to you both to consider. I have close to 100 computer purchasers. Surely if they all thought I was a scammer they'd be out in force complaining, but mark had to even invent characters. Even if forester is right that 6 people didnt have the first idea how to use it, what about the rest of the players?

Sorry you guys are just morons and I really could go on and on about how thickheaded you are, let's just stick to the challenge. As on http://www.roulettewars.com, Episode I (only what counts) is going to be quite embarrassing for you all. It's not my fault though. I'm just defending myself. I know this wont help but here goes: just give up - it will be better for everyone in the long run. You can all go on and on publishing rubbish, but in the end what will that do? I would bet my left testicle, actually both of them, that Ronjo will comfortably confirm my claims, and that exposes you all for what you are - liars and incompetent morons. And the more you attack me, the bigger idiots you will look like later. Sorry but that is the reality, but it's not like you ever listened to me before. There is just honestly nothing any of you could do to actually make a significant impact to especially my wealth, especially as my business interests are too varied and too many of them are not impacted by what stooges say. But as Mickey Mouse once said, "if you dont at first succeed, try try again". If I wanted to attack you morons, the game would be very different. But all I need to do is defend myself and effectively you have harmed yourself. Anyway have a think about it, I mean really - who is harming who?

May the force be with you all.

I've just been alerted to the fact that Bago published a video of him doing the different diamond test. When he first sent me the video (years ago), I was disappointed that I didn't save it for future reference. That's because later I wanted to prove he used a PC DVD player which are notorious for skipping. But now you can see it for yourself at:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVjPGMPkE0

You can clearly see he's using his PC computer DVD player, contrary to my advice. Google skipping pc dvd players and read through the information. Sorry Bago, you just made an arse of yourself, again.

But anyway, Ronjo will do all the tests he wants to show what a moron Bago is. Specifically Ronjo will have a top view of hundreds of spins, and he can choose any of the spins to do the test. I'm sure Ronjo knows better than to use anything but a proper dvd player. Despite verification of my claims on this point, does this test prove the effectiveness of a computer like Forester claims? Nope, there's a lot more to an effective computer than this. But almost all (90%) of foresters claims fall apart when the test is done and Ronjo can see for himself.

PS - Bago, you are doing the same thing Mark did. He busted his butt to try and harm me, but fell flat on his face every time. Why? Because you are trying to discredit an honest person and trying to invalidate TRUTH. You just can't invalidate truth anymore than you can try and prove that 1 + 1 = 9. In the end Mark just relies on blatant lies to try and harm me, but that ends up discrediting himself when people learn the truth.

Again I'm not interested in harming any of you. Do we really have to go through this again? Grow up. Bago you have the same mentality as mark and forester - you keep trying to get the better of me, and when you fall on your face, you stomp your feet like a child and try even harder, but the same thing happens and you get even angrier and it all repeats again. Give up. Get on with your life. You are trying to invalidate truth, and in the end the more you try to do that, the more you'll look like an idiot. I know you wont take that advice, none of you do.

Also again I'll say clearly the universe most certainly does have an in-built BALANCE mechanism. You can call it Karma or whatever, but it's absolutely real. No matter what you try to do to harm me, you end up harming yourself even more. Don't believe this "hippie-talk? I am telling you that one day you will KNOW it is absolutely real.

Honestly Bago, some of the rubbish you write sounds an awful lot like you are Mark Howe, like how you end messages with "LOL" etc like you are really laughing. Who are you trying to convince? Grow up.

I just received this email. It reeks of Mark Howe:

How come you work unloading stuff off boats for cash in the hand if you are really a millionaire like you claim,say hello to the tax man and Gary :-)

LOL

1. The return address was of course fake.

2. Mark is the only one that ever uses the words "if you are really a millionaire like you claim". Sorry Mark if you really can't handle it. You know I actually never said anything about my wealth until you made bullshit claims like I lived with my parents next to a homeless hostel.

3. Mark frequently contacts me under fake names and says rubbish like "say hello to bob". They are just random names. He hopes I'll actually know someone by that name.

4. Mark has reported me to numerous government agencies before with bogus claims in the hopes he'll somehow harm me.

5. Only two morons use LOL like punctuation: Mark and Bago. Perhaps it makes them feel superior, or that we actually believe they are laughing, who knows.

6. The statement about the unloading boxes is complete rubbish. I don't know what goes on in Mark's head when he says this stuff. The best I can figure is he's attempting to tell the tax office I am evading tax and am paid cash at some kind of shipyard job. What a complete and utter knob this man is.

What on Earth has all this got to do with anything? Nothing, it's just some of the rubbish mark does because he doesnt have a life and desperately wants to harm me. Mark you are a very sick man, you really are. Not long now. Feel free to send more as it all goes to the police and helps. Or maybe Mark, GET A LIFE. I know you accused me of ruining your life, but you did it all to yourself. Besides, if all the rubbish you say about like how you made 8m gpb playing roulette before being banned was true, then you I wouldn't have been able to ruin your life, would I? Again Mark, it was not me, it was all you - I just defended myself. I suggest focus on taking care of your child and the babysitter you ran off with and get on with life. I want nothing to do with such a pathetic person. You have no idea what I know about you Mark really, but I haven't bothered to release any of it because I really dont care. Do you really want to tempt me though, or should you listen when I say piss off?

By the way Mark, listen to http://www.genuinewinner.com/dopey.wma

Does the voice sound familiar? Yes Mark, when you call under fake names, I know it is you - I just go along with it, and it's all recorded. Like when you called pretending to be a Canadian man with the female name "Rose", with a British accent. Mark I am truly astounded by how screwed up you are. You have called me under fake names many, many times - the last one was a few weeks ago. I have literally almost 1000 emails from you. It's all part of the harassment case against you. You my friend are much, much worse than Bago and Forester combined, and that's really saying something.

You have even called relatives numerous times. To say you are f***ed-up is an understatement. You really do need help my friend, but I think you're well and truly beyond that point.

The general public may not have a full idea of how screwed up you are (or how far you've gone to try and harm me), but anyone that has actually dealt with you knows. Like Randy who visited you and saw your failed demo, but bought your rubbish anyway and found it was a scam. But then he bought my computer and was very happy. What about Adam who found out your computer was a scam, then you wanted to charge him money for you to test it to see if his claims were true? Yes I have all those emails. Or how about Cloud and when he visited you? There is so much more. I could go on and on forever about you my friend, but I have better things to do. I have not published everything I know because I'm just not interested in harming you - I have better things to do. Please don't tempt me. For your own benefit, keep to yourself. If you are bitter about yours sites that keep coming down, consider not hosting rubbish and they wont be touched. Is it really that hard?

Dream on

Everyone meet Mark under a fake name (Vincent). As usual Mark, I knew quite early on from the rubbish you said at the start. Just like how you once pretended to be a female stripper named Peta Hansen, and you wanted to buy a gazillion roulette computers for you and your stripper friends so you could quit the stripping industry - it was obvious who it was after the first email or so. I dont know what's wrong with you mark, but you really are a screwball. Indeed you are a joke to everyone, which is why you never show your real name on forums. But let's stick to what counts and that will all be addressed in time, but like everyone doesn't already know how full of it you are.

UPDATE: My wheel is on it's way back. The result of the testing was that the drop zones were fine, which is the main thing for testing computers. There wasn't absolutely no drop zone - it was very weak, which makes it like 95% of other wheels. The bias test showed a possible slight bias in some pockets, but no more than the average wheel. Rotor deceleration etc was also checked. With huxley's software, there are green, orange and red wheel ratings. Red is biased and removed from the floor. Orange is pretty much average, where there is a possible slight bias but nothing to really worry about. And green is no sign of bias, or very slight. My wheel is in the orange zone. Most importantly it still passed a chi test so it is acceptable for australian casinos. It is important to understand that even if the wheel failed the chi test, it wouldnt be relevant because the predictions from the computer are never on the same numbers - this will be clear in video demos I release. If anything, a bias would actually decrease accuracy of predictions with computers because they do not account for bias. But even if they did, it wouldnt make much of a difference at all because bias occurs over thousands of spins. A demo of a computer is effective over even 100 spins because you dont just look at direct hits - you look at how far the ball landed from the prediction. This kind of thing is virtually impossible to fake. However the surface of the pockets may still be changed - that is the red and black plastic inside the pockets. This increases the bounce of the ball and will actually make predictions less predictable, but it is not as nice to look at. I may get the plastic replaced but it is easier to just remove it.

Hi long time listener, first time caller. Just wanted to say what you are doing is great steve and I look forward to seeing the final outcome. I can see how the people that say bad things about you are concerned about what you are doing here like you said they are. Just a suggestion though you should just ignore them. They are not worth the time.

Tom, thanks for your support. Clowns like Mark have wasted my time, but a lot more of their own time. The very point of this challenge is so I dont waste further time on them. I'll have it all at http://www.roulettewars.com and anyone can just read the information and decide for themselves. Franky if they arent prepared to do the required reading, I dont want to bother with them. This is not merely about promoting and increasing sales - that is actually secondary. This is primarily about having the truth known and justice. Someone I once spoke to said it is probably the recognition I'm after, which is part of it.

For mark it is about sales because his rubbish doesnt work - but it largely about revenge for mark, really he is desperate to harm me and I'll give details in Episode II. Revenge for what? For just defending myself and making him look like an idiot. Like I said before, looking through all ancient emails between him and me, it was clear he was attacking me on forums for many months before I ever said a word about him. I kep asking and asking for him to stop and be reasonable, but he just wanted to compete and didnt care about truth. When I finally defended myself, many months later, thats when he lost the plot. Many of my players that know about it all cant believe how screwy he really is. I mean he is literally mentally ill, he must be. I have likened him to a monkey in a cage throwing bananas at me because try he cant really do anything to harm me and that enrages the sociopath - being powerless. A sociopath wants to feel powerful, which is why he does stuff like claims he has 24hr video surveillance on me,.. when he doesn't even know where I live. Like how he says rubbish like "say hi to Gary",... when I don't even know any Gary. Yes I do tease the sociopath monkey. Perhaps I should fight the temptation. Honestly that man would say I prefer peas to corn if he believed it might harm me in some way - he is desperate. You cant reason with him though - his motives have nothing to do with the truth. Same as forester and bago.

There will always be people attacking me and I'm ok with that. I'm just interested in the average "normal" person out there. Any "normal" person that does their research thoroughly knows the truth, and people like mark who lies their butts off are exposed for the clowns they are. My aim of this challenge is to make the truth even clearer to see, and to separate what counts from the nitty gritty rubbish that competitors do to divert attention from what matters. That's why there are episodes I and II on roulettewars.com. From this point on I'll just save the nitty gritty for my star wars website. Honestly though I actually do enjoy writing about the nitty gritty stuff, despite it being a waste of time. Why? Because it truly astounds me how outrageous the lies are, especially from mark. Not exactly a productive hobby though I know.

Hi Steve,

Im new here, but who cares :) I am yet again going to say the same thing iv said from day dot - people want to beat roulette but when someone claims they can, you WILL get shot down.

I am GENUINLEY interested in your system and would like further information, cant get onto the links you have on the first page though :(

Could you elaborate on your system please? I am interested to take advice from a professional roulette player - if this is indeed what you are, many people here are singing your praises, and i would like the oppurtunity to do the same, if not have and own a winning system.

IM not a desperate fool in love with gambling, im by no means a gambler, i want to WIN, and WIN CONSISTENTLY. Even £20 a day is fine with me, profit is all i am after. I want a solid system that WORKS. I need to read up on your system so please if you would oblige...?

Im not interested in stupid feuds with "rivals", i will be the judge of you (and your system)and if others do the same - the world would be a better place in general - never mind roulette :)

I AM the "normal" person you speak of and im interested.

I know i dont know you buddy - but i would say this - keep your mind on the game and not the haters and clowns. There's too many of them, they will keep flocking to you, just bypass them and be the better person.

THank you for reading...

Steve can your roulette computer  work on real physical live wheels online?

Anandram: my site is just being upgraded. It was drawing too much bandwidth from video downloads. The transfer will be complete today. What additional information do you want to know that isnt already at my website?

Also you are better to just email me directly, or even better just call me.

And no, my computer doesnt work online because the footage is way too poor, and you cant bet after ball release.

Hi Steve,

Are we still going ahead?

Regards,
Ronjo.  

Hi Ronjo, hell yeah we're still going ahead. I'm just waiting for:

1. Iwonder to return the phone so I can send it to you (OR for my technician to complete another batch of phones). Lanky said Iwonder was shipping the phones the other day, but they havent arrived yet and he wont contact me to let me know if they've been shipped or not.

2. Repairs on the mk7 wheel to be done so I can do the video (top view)

The mk7 had an orange rating indicative of a difference in bounce in different pockets. It can happen if the glue beneath pockets comes lose even marginally. So all the plastic parts (in pockets) have been removed. But it might need replacing because the metal part beneath the plastic is not identical between pockets. I know the computer isnt looking for bias, and difference in pocket bounce will actually decrease computer accuracy, and the bias is so small it's no different to the average wheel, but I dont want morons to have a leg to stand on.

Dont mistake things being quiet here for nothing much going on. We are very much still going ahead.

Quoted from Steve

Dont mistake things being quiet here for nothing much going on. We are very much still going ahead.

Hi Steve,

Thats great to hear,and I cant wait to get going,and post my findings which I have no doubt in my mind that all will be as Steve says it is.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Quoted from Steve

Anandram: my site is just being upgraded. It was drawing too much bandwidth from video downloads. The transfer will be complete today. What additional information do you want to know that isnt already at my website?

Also you are better to just email me directly, or even better just call me.

And no, my computer doesnt work online because the footage is way too poor, and you cant bet after ball release.

Steve - I wanted you to explain your system a little (without giving it away), because your website wasnt working - but looks to be up now so no drama. Im reading up on your site, so will be in touch. Why is it better to email/call you direct? I have family all over australia, (darwin/adelaide/perth/sydney), might get one of them to come check your system out :) Iv been to darwin - lovely place and people.

Dont think ill be calling just yet - i live in the UK (tarrifs and cost and all that - hopefully with your system that can be a worry of the past). Ill email you if i have anything i feel you wouldnt want to discuss  on a forum.

So you would say your system (not the computer) is effective for online gaming? I guess the answer your going to come out with is obvious - but im just curious on your thoughts about your system.
Thanks for yor time.

Anandram, please either email or call me about me system. As for information you request, my site already has the answers you are after.

Lanky do you know if Iwonder has actually sent back the phone yet? It hasnt arrived and he's only in melbourne.

PS - I'll just add today's tests on the mk7 wheel achieved 1 in 10 exact number hit rate. This is with predictions 15 seconds before the ball falls. Results may not always be that good but it's a good start. But the exact number hit rate isnt the real proof, it's more how far the ball landed from the tuned prediction.

Hi Steve.

As far as I know You would have recieved it Yesterday Wednesday our Time by express post.

Your Friend.

Lanky.

Thanks Lanky but it definitely isnt there. Please check with Iwonder to confirm it was actually sent. Thanks.

Quoted from Ronjo

Hi Steve,

Thats great to hear,and I cant wait to get going,and post my findings which I have no doubt in my mind that all will be as Steve says it is.

Regards,
Ronjo.

so when is this actually going ahead people?

It is going ahead once I receive the computer back from Iwonder, then I can send it to Ronjo.

Hi Steve,
From what I can see you spend too much time "defending your self" from these childish attacks, have you considered people can see through the attacks and that you are in fact a genuine person, I do, I don't need to keep reading about how this guy did this this guy did that. Its no dig at you mate, I'm just saying don't waste your energy even aknowledging them, let alone defending yourself against their stupid claims. To respond to all of it the way you do is half of what they want. Half is to discredit you, and half is to piss you off. You may not be discredited, but you sure do sound pissed off. Don't let them do either

Quoted from 1894

Hi Steve,
From what I can see you spend too much time "defending your self" from these childish attacks, have you considered people can see through the attacks and that you are in fact a genuine person, I do, I don't need to keep reading about how this guy did this this guy did that. Its no dig at you mate, I'm just saying don't waste your energy even aknowledging them, let alone defending yourself against their stupid claims. To respond to all of it the way you do is half of what they want. Half is to discredit you, and half is to piss you off. You may not be discredited, but you sure do sound pissed off. Don't let them do either

I agree with 99% of your post poit, but at the end of the day some people can see through it and some just can't. Maybe it makes Steve feel better by writing out his frustrations. I know when im pissed, all i gotta do is write it in an email, and half the time i dont even want to send it thereafter because iv let it our through writing it. People who cant be bothered to sit there and read through masses of info NEED to see the things that Steve writes, otherwise i feel if he doesn't respond, he WILL be discredited. Yes the truth outshines all lies and liars come out to be shown just as that, but there's nothing wrong with Steve defending himself in the meantime i think. Most things that are written about him deserve a response, otherwise people will say "oh he's not responding because he is guilty", so as you see, he really cannot win, but probably does MORE good for him to respond to the more harsher attacks.

Yes I do spend too much time defending myself from morons. For about a year I virtually ignored them, but lack of response meant the morons had free reign to say whatever they want - this is what misled many people about me. Just about everyone that took the time to call me and/or do thorough research knew how full of it people like mark and forester were, but many people are lazy and base their opinions on hearsay and fake negative reviews from people like mark under fake names. Then I finally started defending myself, it embarrassed them, and it became their mission to harm me. When someone is shown to be a complete liar, of course they'll be embarrassed. I never aimed to embarrass anyone - all I did was defend myself like I'm doing now. I dont want to waste time with this - I created http://www.roulettewars.com and all results of this public challenge will be posted there. If anyone wants to know the truth, they can just read for themselves. If anyone asks me about all the rubbish, I just refer them to roulettwars.com. I dont intend to go on and on about it on forums. No matter what the outcome of this challenge, and I already know what it will be, of course mark and forester will continue on. But those following the challenge will know the basic truth.

When dealing with people like forester and mark, these are two absolute morons with absolute rubbish devices and they claim them to be the best around. I have two of mark's computers and one of foresters. Most were given to me for free by unhappy purchasers, who then purchased my computer and saw the truth for themselves. I know they're just competitors, but they have so little integrity and have lied to so many. Mark's customers know right away they've been scammed. Forester's take a little longer because his computer at least passes the different diamond test, but as explained in detail at http://www.roulettecomputers.com/comparison.htm you need a lot more than accurate timings to beat modern wheels, and microprocessors just cant do it.

The primary aim of the challenge with Ronjo is to provide everyone with a simple single resource where they can learn the truth for themselves. That single resource is http://www.roulettewars.com - if someone genuinely reads the site, the truth is very clear, and it will be even clearer once everyone is done with Ronjo.

PS - On Forester's forum he said:

Quoted Text

By the way one day I was driving to Healsville, national park, when I was in Lilydayle I turned and pass next to Stefano’s house. There was old ironing table chucked out in front of the house as rubbish. I hope his lady as replacement got better quality one since this one was the cheapest version from reject shop $12

Forester really wants to focus on ironing boards?? I assume he's trying to upset me. Firstly, I dont live there - it is a rental property and he visited my tenant (www.roulettecomputers.com/rent.jpg). Secondly, although I've been sent his address before I'm not in the least bit interested. Thirdly, if he was in my area, why didnt he meet me? He keeps avoiding meeting me because he's concerned with what he'll see. If he had called me I would have met him - I'm 5 mins from where he was. And finally, although forester made it a point that he was traveling with his computer, the result was he lost. So did his other player on the same forum thread. Thats what happens if you use his nonsense on a modern wheel. But instead of improving your device, ok forester let's focus on the old ironing board of a tenant.

Lanky, still Iwonder's computer has not arrived. Chances are it has not been sent yet. I cant get in contact with Iwonder so please follow-up for me so we can get this challenge done.

UPDATE: I now have the computer back from Iwonder. Ronjo, let's finally proceed. Ronjo in the videos I'll send you I want to be using the actual computer I'm sending you - that is the computer Iwonder just sent me. This is because the computer will have learned the wheel and the data will already be on the computer for you. Then you only need to test the computer and can be assured the settings are correct. But you dont do the different diamond test with it at that stage, because unlike typical computers, my computer doesnt consider the prediction merely where the ball reaches a certain speed. To do the different diamond test, reset the computer and start from scratch - you need the right settings for this test too which I'll explain later - ie you have to tell the computer that the wheel is 'perfect", which it is of course not, but for the purposes of the test we'll consider it perfect. You take your sample and do the test with ANY of the spins in the DVD - this will clarify that the computer is not rigged. The DVD will have the wheel spin for a bit before ball release so testing on any spins is made easier. I'll create the DVD this upcoming week and plan to ship by the end of next week (16th Jan).

NOTE: Although the computer will be setup and all ready to go, you will still need to delete all the data and do everything again, so you can verify everything for yourself. If you want, even start application from half way in the dvds or whatever. I fully encourage you to use your own initiative and experience to run tests to validate my claims. I know my computer better than my own wife, and I know any test you do, if done correctly, will validate my claims.

What will the 3 stooges say when this is all done? Who cares. Maybe that I own a cheap ironing board - anything to distract attention. I think most people now know not to believe rubbish from them anyway. As I've said numerous times, the stooges will still attack me no matter what. We all expect that. But what I'd like from anyone interested is ideas on how to make Ronjo's testing bulletproof - i.e. tests to determine if the phone I've sent him is somehow rigged. Why? Because I don't want the stooges to have a leg to stand on. Perhaps they already dont which is why they discuss ironing boards of my tenants, but I'd like to be thorough anyway.

Ideas anyone? An example is for the different diamond test, to establish that the phone is not merely loaded with only specific numbers, Ronjo will have a DVD of spins with the top view of the wheel. That way he can use any spin he wants for the test.

By the way: Mark, Forester and Bago, you are all welcome to join and post here and ask Ronjo to do specific tests with whatever conditions etc. Forester even your deluded followers like fatgambler and spock can make suggestions, or they can just keep calling me naughty names not ever having a clue what they're on about. But if any of you do this, please dont be the typical dickheads you are - be scientific, not personal. Nobody cares what food i like to eat or what deodorant I use. I dont think any you will take this offer, because you dont want the result. But by all means, the offer is here for you. After all you clowns have said and done, I should send your computers to Ronjo too and videos of my own testing, but I'm not interested in harming any of you - just defending myself. Forester my system doesnt need tilted wheels, or to follow dealers, and you really dont know anything about it, so perhaps dont go telling people you know about it - it produces better results on my mk7 wheel than your IQE6 FF does. We're starting with the computer in this challenge, and the system will follow. Ronjo will see all he needs to confirm my claims, especially about dealer signature nonsense you and mark spread. In the end you will probably still be talking about ironing boards and what you think my system is.

Just confirming the following:

Ronjo had a problem with his account. For some reason he couldnt login. So I created a second account for his with same name, which is NOT supposed to be allowed to happen. Anyway I manually set up Ronjo's account, and logged in to test it. I just forgot to logout of his name and accidentally posted under his name. Sorry for the confusion.

Ronjo you can verify to whoever you want that you are you by confirming it via vls or email.

Thanks Steve all sorted I was a bit worried.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Jeepers they are going nuts over at forester's forum about this business with Ronjo's name. It is actually quite funny how they all jumped on this and especially Bago is busting his butt to try and discredit me - he even went all-out publishing screenshots. Perhaps a "little bit" desperate to discredit me? They jump on anything like flies on a pile of dung - just from this, imagine what they would do with other information. Mark is the worst - he'll talk about everything from the size of my TV to fake identities he created. Forester even talks about ironing boards of my tenants. Just in case the issue comes up, I'll clearly state I prefer corn to peas. Why? I dunno I just prefer the taste.

Kelly, correct it all doesn't fit. Why on Earth would I try and pretend to be Ronjo when I know he could so easily post on VLS or email one of his friends and confirm whether or not he actually said something or posted something? At least Kelly took a more neutral point of view.

Ronjo, you may need to confirm who you really are, just for the idiots like Bago. Perhaps email Lanky and others that know you well enough. Everyone should keep in mind that Ronjo was suggested to me by numerous people as a known and trusted member - even Victor from VLS suggested him. In fact I contacted a whole list of people victor suggested but most people wanted to stay out of it. We should also keep in mind I already sent a computer to TWO others for testing, but due to circumstances beyond their control, they had to withdrawal. But my point is IF I were dishonest and my computer was trash like morons like forester claim, then WHY would I dare send a computer to two well known forum members for them to test until their heart is content? The fact is my computer is every bit of what i claim, and I know anyone testing it will confirm this. If there was any doubt at all that the testing would be postive, I wouldnt dare send the phones.

By the way Forester, so much of what you say is so twisted you really have no idea what you're talking about. Forester said "All that stories that he is all the time surrounded by armed body guards because he carries to much cash that he is winning $30,000 per hour are rubbish." What is wrong with your head forester? I never said anything even close to that. The only mention of any kind of security guard is I have at least 1 security staff for public demos. With the idiots in this industry, can you blame me? what do you want me to scan a bloody receipt from the security company? Why dont you just come and meet one of the guards yourself instead of hiding like a coward making excuses for not visiting, then claiming to others I backed out of a meeting. Forester, you very frequently say completely twisted things that show you have no idea what you are talking about, really. I dont intend to respond to your every little piece of rubbish you say that misleads people, so I am focusing on what counts, and sorry but that is going to embarrass you again. Honestly Forester, you are complete idiot who says things that have 1% of truth to them, you twist the information in your own head completely then say I'm lying about it. When you make such ridiculous statements I'm so tempted to correct you, but if I did it all the time I would have very little spare time left. Another one though, you said "Stefano also asked me if I remove graph of his roulette computer performance that he will unblock phone of Croatian guy. " what a crock of ****. Firstly, I never said anything even remotely close to that. Really Forester you are a LIAR, like how you told people I offered to buy your algorithms. I am learning more and more your lies are not just honest mistakes - they are a combination of your stupidity, ignorance, and some of your lies that you so clearly KNOW they are lies, but I dont yet fully understand your motivations for them - you are becoming more like Mark every day. Secondly, the Crotian guy broke the contracts and I will never trust him again under any circumstances so I would never even come close to making the offer you said I made. And thirdly, my computer does not operate on the same principles as your computer, so charts pertaining to ball fall points are not relevant to your method of analysis. Your computer stupidly assumes the wheel has no diamonds, so if you make that assumption with my computer, of course you arent going to get the results you expect. It's not my fault you cant see diamonds. At this stage forester, some people still believe you (albeit very few) - but in time even they will know you have been lying to them. What will you tell them? That I must have somehow manipulated Ronjo? That I paid him? Hell anything but admit you were wrong, because how would that make you look? Grow up.

You, Mark and Bago are so desperate to discredit me you really do jump on anything like flies on dung, and twist even the smallest thing to be negative to suit yourself. I could give many examples, but that's just what you do when you are biased and have such strong hatred towards me. Why do you hate me so much? Because I made you look like idiots when defending myself? Because you want so badly to win? Sorry but you are all trying to invalidate truth, by various means including criticizing the ironing board of a tenant. Look the truth is going to come out in the end, and instead of a scientific approach, you all attack everything about me you can think of. Am I right when I say to you clowns this is half about "winning" the debate? Grow up. Truth is so much louder than your rubbish, and you will soon be forced to deny the truth with it slapping you in the face. Will you all admit being wrong? No chance in hell, no matter what. What does that say about you guys?

Forester, Bago and whoever, you can go on and on about rubbish regarding my computer and the different diamond test, but you are forgetting that Ronjo will do that test for himself. With Bago his problem was either skipping dvd (most likely as he used a pc dvd player) or his ball sample was too short and the polynomial order needed to be changed in settings. If you want to see how pathetic Bago's understanding of my computer was, see http://www.roulettewars.com/bago2.html - it's all there. Bago didnt even understand how to isolate wheel speed - the most elemental feature. Bago's understanding of the computer was so poor I virtually pleaded with him to let me call him to give support, but he refused saying he didnt speak english well enough. Being the person Bago is, he finds it easier to attack me than blame his own incompetence. Something peculiar about Bago though is he was selling his earpiece before he even complained about my computer, so it is entirely possible he decided not to use it, which is why he sought a refund. He'd of course need an excuse for a refund, which is perhaps why his excuses were so pathetic (every one of Bago's official complaints are at http://www.roulettewars.com/bago.html). Now Bago on forester's forum claims he couldnt use the computer because it was illegal in france. Strange how he assured me it was LEGAL, but I couldnt confirm this because the legal advice was in french. Why would Bago tell me it was legal when it wasnt? Because the contracts state he cannot use it illegally. Bago's story stinks to high heaven. I believe his request for a refund was initially because he didnt want to use it where it was illegal, plus he didnt have any clue how to use it anyway as clearly explained at http://www.roulettewars.com/bago.html - in light of Bago's complete lack of integrity, I would not put it past Bago that all his shenanigans are all because he couldnt apply the computer in france and he wanted to get a refund, so he had to make up bogus excuses. Again see all his official complaint at http://www.roulettewars.com/bago.html and decide for yourself if Bago's complaints are ridiculous and frivolous. The first time I read his complaints I believed he was really reaching for excuses. It is important to note that Bago only showed me the video of his test AFTER I refunded his money. WHY did he do it in this order? Perhaps he didnt want support - he just wanted the refund. Indeed it's starting to make more sense now. Nevermind though, the challenge will show what a liar and/or incompetent moron Bago is.

As for anyone else that may have had problems with the different diamond test, they need to actually notify me of a problem for me to advise them. I know of one other computer player that had similar problems, and when I asked him why he never sought support or notified me of the problem, and he said word for word: "I never complained or seek support because i cant stand being lied in the face". Now think about this for a second. A customer has a problem, but they do NOT seek support. Instead, they refuse to seek support thinking I'll probably just lie to them. How stupid is that? See what I mean by some players neglect to get support for stupid reasons, then later they blame me for not getting support. Did you know that Forester bases his testimony about my computer from players like this?.. players that flatly refuse to get support. In fact this is actually one of the players he knows and claims it is all proof of his claims that I'm a scammer. The blind leading the blinder. Sure Forester, you really know what you are talking about. Like another player in Croatia who never asked for any support and just kept getting the monthly access codes - he never complained about anything. Then when I found he broke the contracts, I stopped giving him codes, and now he hates me for that? What the hell did he expect? Forester speaks of 3 Croatian players. One of them is the one I banned as I just explained, one is a younger player but he has been very happy with the computer, although he's a student and probably hasnt had time to play. The third croatian is extremely happy with the computer and believes every much as I do that forester is a clown. Forester has no idea what he is talking about - he bases his opinions on people like the players that refuse to seek support for stupid reasons. When I talk about such morons, bare in mind we are talking about the MINORITY of players here - the majority of my players are normal people and they are very appreciative of the technology. But unfortunately it only takes a minority of idiots to mislead others. The other players think people like Bago are nothing short of complete dickheads. Many offer to defend me on forums, but I ask them not to specifically because it will a big waste of time for them, it will result in leaked information, and there will be no end to it anyway. My intentions are to do this challenge and hold another public demo specifically for the video of it to be released. Forester can say all he likes that probably only my family attended. He can say I used really high quality computer animations to fake people in the video or whatever.

Forester, how much about my computer do you actually know, considering you didnt even know how to make the computer call "risk" when the wheel is within certain speed ranges? My point is you knew so little about my computer. I always said you were either lying and had never even seen it, or were simply relaying another player's very poor understanding of the computer.

What matters here? What actually counts? An independent tester (Ronjo) is going to settle this once and for all. Kelly is welcome to take this challenge too, if he changes his mind about it. It appears Forester is claiming Ronjo could be me since he has been a member of this forum for some time. May I remind you Forester that Ronjo was chosen specifically because he is well known and trusted on VLS, which is probably the bigger forum. How do we all know Ronjo isnt me? Firstly, I'll release audio of a phone call with him after the testing is done. Secondly, many of the other forum members have either met or spoken to Ronjo themselves - this is largely whyt Ronjo was chosen. It would make no sense to have someone that was not known or trusted. Forester, you may not know who Ronjo is, but the MAJORITY of people do and the majority of people trust him which is what counts.

Feel free to go on and on about absolute trash, b ut I'm not interested in attacking any of your - Mark, Forester or Bago - you are complete morons and you are about to lose what shred of credibility you have left. That is your own doing - I'm only defending myself. If I wanted to attack you I'd do things differently. I have both of your devices and was sent them free because they are rubbish. You both know they have no chance of beating modern wheels. I have demonstrated both of your devices in public demos, and I'll do it again and will release the video of it. Sure sure, you really think I dont have public demos? Really, I am looking forward to all this immensely. The testing is just around the corner. Prepare your list of excuses. My money is on that you will all probably claim there is some kind of unknown manipulation or deal with Ronjo - because it is your last and pathetic resort. Who cares though? Everyone else will know who has been either lying or incompetent - the truth will be very clear. Bago, you cant bare to be seen as incompetent or stupid, and that's why you're fighting so hard.

Anyway continue on with your rubbish statements and twisted facts. You can all go on about what you think the truth is or what you want people to believe, instead of what is. You know if you morons were actually reasonable and scientific (neutral), things would be very very different. But you are all (mark,forester,bago) so biased and despise me, and you all reach at the smallest things to try and get at me. Nevertheless, I intend to focus on what counts - this challenge, and like it or not, you are going to be proven wrong. Any normal person might want to back off in anticipation of embarrassment, but no not you stooges - you all jump on the smallest thing and cling to anything you can. But by all means dont back off - but understand this will make you look like bigger idiots later. The two biggest points for me to address are dealer signature for the system and the different diamond test for the computer, and I'm supremely confident that Ronjo will be left in no doubt. While with Ronjo I'll cover the major points, I'll also cover the smaller things like verify the existence of my hybrid roulette computer. Yes I really have developed an automated roulette computer - it's certainly not some $2 programmable microchip with a zapper like Forester's junk, and it's not some tiny dysfunctional java software that was created in an hour like Mark's computer. Mark claims he and a newspaper offered me $1m to prove it exists, which is an offer I accept, but it was a completely fabricated offer from Mark.

Boy I could go on, but this will all unfold in time. It is tempting to stray, especially when morons say things that are so backwards up in so many ways, but I'll focus on what counts.

Just two questions though for you bago, mark and forester - what will you say when Ronjo has tested and seen my claims about the 6 and 3 pocket arc are accurate for the computer? What will you say when Ronjo confirms my system goes well beyond the primordials, most of which has absolutely nothing to do with dealers? Bare in mind Ronjo is well known and trusted by the majority of people. Sure you can go on and on with hugely distorted information and information that shows you really have no idea, but can you focus on what counts? Prepare your list of excuses. But again, after the demo I wont really care about rubbish you say because the MAJORITY of people will know the truth, and that's all that matters to me. Would it really hurt your egos that much to apologize and admit you were wrong? Apparently so. But it's not that simple is it? All three of you are protecting your ego and integrity, but two of you are protecting your business interests and the truth doesn't suit you. In the end the truth will be so plainly clear to everyone that follows the challenge, that anything you three say to discredit my technology will only expose you for the liars, dishonest competitors, incompetent fools and plain morons you are.

Wow you destroyed them :)

If it helps I would be happy to allow a phone recording of discussion with myself.

Thanks Hawk but no-one knows you well enough for it to have the desired effect. Ronjo was chosen because he is well known and trusted by the majority of people. He appears to be a very decent guy.

By the way, Ronjo now has his old account back. In settings I just had to use a feature that re-established the member list. I dont know exactly what the problem was, but it is fixed anyway. I removed his newer account to avoid confusion.

Have my posts been deleted from this page by purpose or....? It was the one in response to why ronjos name appeared twice etc. Or was it to simply clear up confusion?

Anandram, I removed some posts from here as they werent relevant anymore.

Also Ronjo, Bago doesnt believe you and I are different people but I really dont care what he thinks - others know better. Actually he probably knows you are someone else, but he's reaching for excuses and making irrelevant and twisted comments in CAPITALS etc. By the way Bago, I'm not interested in making morons $30k. Eventually you will learn what I have achieved, and continue to achieve with my own teams, and I dont doubt it is beyond what people like Basiex have achieved. To anyone that sees the hybrid, it is very impressive - but to you who barely even knows squat about the standard computer thinks the notion of an automated roulette computer is silly? Yes you really are a pro Bago. I'd love to further pull apart your ridiculous comments but I just dont care. Your comments are so far off track and childish they are not worth response. Already people think you're an idiot anyway. Just like your assumptions with Ronjo, the rest of your assumptions are way off-track. Your last comments are like something out of a kindergarten - did you want to poke your tongue too?. Bago if you were trustworthy or had any kind of integrity, I would explore ways to demonstrate the truth to you. But you are a child, you are extremely immature and have as much integrity as mark howe. Relax Bago the challenge will be over before you know it, then you can make all the excuses you like.

Forester you really have problems understanding. I'll correct you again:

1. Never have there been cancellations of my public demos. The only thing that comes close to a cancellation is change in approximate time of year. I have held many public demos, and once the dates are set they never change - I make sure of this because many people book flights. Some demos are in smaller groups (1-3), some in larger (10-15). I certainly could release audio of some of those demos, and I havent done it so far is because each recording is about 4-5 hours long and I havent had time to censor them. Thats why in the upcoming public demo I'll just be more careful about what is said, so barely any editing will be required. Who knows why you have trouble accepting it. I have completed two RAAF training courses on instruction and public speaking, and was an instructor in the RAAF cadet scheme for many years so I've grown to love public speaking. I love to demonstrate my technology and to meet other players so I enjoy the public demos. You can argue that the demos have never taken place but that's just one more point for you to be wrong about, and more of a red face later.

2. I already released the report of professional testing. Remember Forester? You had it yourself in exe format. If you read it, you would have found the bottom line was although actual tests were positive, and the theory behind the patterns was sound, he was unable to fully verify whether or not positive results were due to luck or not. And to answer your question about payment to him, the agreement was payment irrespective of the report being positive or negative. Before I settled on a physicist, I had been in contact with universities and labs for testing, but many of them said they simply did not have the expertise or knowledge of roulette to do investigations. You and Mark go on and on about this, all along missing the result of the testing that was published long ago. Although the report was positive, I'm not happy with it because I feel he had ample information to ascertain that the results were not merely luck. Some of his comments state it is not likely to be luck, but specifically the conclusion at the end does not go into this enough. Dont get me wrong he knows my analysis techniques work, but proving it to the scientific community is much more complicated. The bottom line of the report was that the methods were effective over the test spins, and although the chances are it is not likely luck, there is still that possibility.

3. I never claimed the photo on my website is not me. What is wrong with you? You love making up stories about things I said or did. Who knows what goes on in your ignorant head.

All you three stooges go on about complete rubbish. No matter what you say, the outcome of the testing wont change. But no matter what is released and no matter what proof slaps you in the face, you all will still swear until you're blue in the face that you are still right. You know that. Everyone here knows that. So we dont care. I only care about what the majority knows. The three of you are so desperate to harm me you would exploit the fact that I like hamburgers if you thought it could be twisted to make me look bad.

Bago your understanding of even the primordials is worse than I thought. You published a correlation (primordial) chart and claimed the peak at 13 was merely due to a sector bias in the area of number 13. Bago my friend, correlation charts have nothing to do with a specific sector on a wheel - the predicted sector changes each spin. In fact I dont think I can think of a worse interpretation of the charts and you profess to know everything about my technology?? Also if a bias was legit, a custom variant utilizes it. You say custom variants dont exist but you really have no idea what they are. If you did, you'd understand how idiotic your statements seem. By the way, the patterns incorporated into the casino analysis software has nothing to do with primordial or correlation charts. I'm sorry Bago but you go around telling everyone that you're a pro and that you know something about my methods, but you've already shown us just how much you really know. You are no different to Mark and Forester where you take known information and twist it completely based on your own beyond poor understanding, then claim to everyone that you know everything. How can you explain such a clear misunderstanding of none other than the most basic methods - the primordials? A typo? Temporarily drunk? Bad english? If you cant even get the most basic of basics, how on Earth could you understand something like custom variants? It is simple Bago, you are an incompetent child who wants everyone to believe he's a pro, and that you know all and that I'm a scammer and that you are right - stomp your feet child. Who cares what you say Bago. There other players know what a dickhead you are and have offered many times to respond to defend me. You are just fighting because what Ronjo will find - in the simplest terms possible, you are trying to knock me down to eliminate or reduce the impact of this challenge. Sorry, but nothing you can do or say will change the outcome - you cant invalidate truth. Also you are still claiming I'm Ronjo. Keep on doing it, it's making you look like an even bigger idiot to people that know better. I guess claiming I'm Ronjo is your last resort.

@ Kelly, keep in mind Bago really doesnt know what he's talking about. Accepting what he says as the truth is bound to mislead you. He's like Forester and likes people to think he knows all in attempt to harm me, but he actually knows very little - he clings to what he knows or believes, and twists the information to make it look as negative as possible. That what anyone who's desperate to discredit someone does. In the end, all he knows about my system is the primordial element uses correlation charts, and from his last post he still doesnt even know how they are used. Kelly if you knew more about my system, I have no doubts you would be able to verify the validity of principles beyond anything like primordials or correlation charts. Based on Bago's last post alone you can see how poor Bago's understanding of even the basics are. As you have good roulette knowledge, you'd understand how critical Bago's mistake is - it is not just a minor misunderstanding, it is colossal.

@ Forester, you said "Why not from point when it starts spinning or even better from VB defined point?" - what on Earth makes you think I dont teach my players to obtain the reference point via different methods, including VB? Why do you think primordial charts are called PRIMORDIAL? What is the most "primordial" reference point? From one spin to another. You know as much as Bago, because you get your information from idiots like Bago, but you dont want to listen to me when I try to correct you. That is called ignorance. Or perhaps it's simply what you do to compete.

One thing to keep in mind that everything even Laurence and Pierre teach are part of what I teach players - in fact everything they teach is only a small part of everything. But according to Bago I'm a scammer.. Yes it just doesnt fit. Why should be obvious - he wants to discredit me.

PS - Bago, remember when you tried to take my $100k challenge with John Solitude's raindrop method, where you wait for an event to not happen for some time before betting on it, and you said that you would win for sure because the balance would eventually occur? Then later when you realized what an idiot you looked like, you claimed you knew the method didnt work and were just trying to scam me - of course you had to say that because your extremely poor understanding of roulette was obvious. Well you have shown us again how much of a pro you are, although perhaps only people like Kelly may understand how bad your understandings of even the most basic concepts are. Honestly Bago, in light of your erratic and extremely childish behavior, I can only conclude you are every bit of a mental patient as Mark is. Even you said yourself you have some problems with your behavior. Everyone at VLS and GG have experienced it first-hand and you wonder why no-one likes or wants you on boards. you really do have a lot of growing-up to do. You are also a very angry person, at virtually everyone. Truly Bago, with the exception of Mark who is off the charts, you are the biggest dickhead I've ever known. I refuse to believe it is just your age - I know kids a third of your age that are better behaved. I know you will continue to bust your butt to discredit me. I'll just move things along with Ronjo. I understand you are threatened by the challenge, but take it like a grown man.

i tell you what Steve, you are either
a) A great liar, writer and talker
b) Very confident and know your system(s) are every bit as effective as you claim.

I cannot see you busting your a** to proove this and that, to risk your credibility, and everything else that goes with it if you did not have every ounce of faith in your system. You are trying to proove so much whilst your competitors proove nothing other than they can run their mouth. Isnt it obvious to all who is telling the truth and who isnt? WHy would a man risk so much and go to such lengths to proove it, if he was not 100% confident?? Its not to generate sales, because noone would be as stupid to get an independent party to test each aspect of a system knowing it would fail. Someone tell me what the purpose is of paying someones fees to go over to Australia, knowing the methods/system you have been defending are rubbish? Steve, you are obviously confident in your work if applied correctly to produce the desired results, anyone who cannot see what goes on with your clown competitors would probably not even use your system/computers effectivley/correctly anyway, and as a result would end up  blaming you.

Neutral parties need to use their brains, and THINK. just add 1 and 1 together for christ sake.

How are things coming along ronjo/steve?

Thanks, yes I am very confident with the challenge. Before anything I just want the truth known. I know most people now know the truth, or lean towards that the others are lying. Still I want to leave absolutely no doubt.

Ronjo, the video is done. There are 150 spins, top view of wheel etc. Exact number hit rate is 1 in 21 and I'll release chart which displays distance the ball landed from actual prediction. Predictions are approximately 15 seconds before the ball falls - I wanted to make it clear that even on a distorted ball track, predictions with the computer can be very early. Of course later predictions would have been much more accurate, but I didnt want to make things too easy. The risk feature is completely disabled, so predictions are given on every spins. Based on all the testing I've done on the mk7 wheel, 1 in 12 hit rate is consistently possible with stricter settings. You can see the wheel is pretty much perfectly semi-tilted so it perfectly represents 95% of wheels. The ball frequently hits horizontal diamonds, floats around the rotor etc and does all kinds of "unpredictable" things.

I'll try and fit all the footage on one DVD, but it may be two. Today I'll be compiling the DVD and plan to ship tomorrow or later today if I have time. You can begin application from anywhere in the video to confirm the computer is not rigged, but of course the computer needs to be tuned to a wheel before predictions become accurate. With the top view of the wheel, you can do the different diamond test, which is about 95% of what needs to be done to show everyone what liars there are around.

PS - I've already tried to apply both mark's latest computer and forester's iqe6 against the mk7 with basically random results. But I'm going to apply their computers against the exact same 150 spins to see results. Based on the fact alone that the ball is just as likely to hit a vertical diamond than a horizontal diamond, you can plainly see their computers have it all wrong.

By the way Bago, now you are saying I dont know how to level a wheel. Are there any other pathetic rantings? Bago, you dont even have a roulette wheel and if I dont know how to level a wheel, why do my wheels appear level? I know I know, the magic roulette fairy levels my wheels. Yes Bago, I really dont know what I'm doing. If I were you Bago I'd be working on my list of excuses instead of making stupid attacks. You dont even know what the house edge is, or the difference between bias and correlation charts - I dont think you're in position to say how a wheel can be leveled. I think you need to wise-up to the fact that I dont care what you think, or your newfound friend forester - you are both knobs that twist and say anything to try and discredit me. People following this challenge will know the truth. You call yourself the truth seeker Tony - you are a coward running from the truth. None of you stooges will ever accept the truth even when it slaps you. Why? For many reasons, but for you Bago the truth plain makes you look stupid. Keep on fighting, i dont care. Also could you please stop calling me fat and bald. It is hurting my feelings. And please dont poke your tongue - it's the most hurtful thing that could ever happen to me. Grow up.

Ronjo I managed to fit it all on one DVD, but the compression is heavy and the footage quality isn't as good. So what I'll do is send you a DVD of all spins, plus two dvds with the same thing, but better quality - all for the mk7 wheel. I'll also send two other dvds which are for the mk2 wheel.

Because the mk7 footage is all top-view, you'll find it very easy to do the different diamond test, and you'll quickly see how full of it the stooges are. That's really the main test to do, but from how the ball falls on the mk7 you'll know why the different diamond test is a very poor way to gauge computer effectiveness. Forester says otherwise, but that's because his computer assumes diamonds dont exist.

Hi Steve,

Thanks Steve,looking forward to working with you.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Ronjo I'll have to send everything tomorrow as I havent had time. Also I will be doing another dvd today because in the previous two the zero is hard to see. This is because the plastic in the pockets was removed to eliminate a potential type of bias, and the clear green is no longer there - it's just all chrome. So in the new video I'll do something to make the zero easier to see, and I'll include this dvd. I'll of course send the other dvds too.

I've done the different diamond testing on the videos and most spins are fine - just avoid using spins where the ball jumps or does something similar. You should have no problems achieving most predictions within a 3 pocket arc.

Hey Steve,
I read somewhere that you are a "convicted criminal" is there any truth to this claim what so ever? like did you get in trouble for not paying a parking fine or something stupid like that?

Quoted from 1894

Hey Steve,
I read somewhere that you are a "convicted criminal" is there any truth to this claim what so ever? like did you get in trouble for not paying a parking fine or something stupid like that?

Although im sure Steve will respond to you, ill start by saying that people should do some research. Im surprised poit that you have been on this forum for so long, challenged Steve regarding his challenge and have never had any curiosity as to who this steve really is, especially when he claims his system does so much.

I had the above curiosity and done my homework, like anyone should, im sure Steve will point you towards http://www.roulettewars.com (the faq's page) for you to read up on his "crime". Although this does not bear any relevance on his system (in my opinion) and its effectiveness. However one might say that it does to an extent in regards to trust, but personally it doesnt bother me because if you take the time to speak to the guy, he is indeed a very normal person. We've all fcuk'd up, intentionally or not.

Excuse if i sound like i am licking arse here, im not - it just prooves that people really do not do any research.

Not a direct attack on you poit, im just surprised that you didnt look it up before posting your comment thats all.

Quoted from Anandram

Although im sure Steve will respond to you, ill start by saying that people should do some research. Im surprised poit that you have been on this forum for so long, challenged Steve regarding his challenge and have never had any curiosity as to who this steve really is, especially when he claims his system does so much.

I had the above curiosity and done my homework, like anyone should, im sure Steve will point you towards http://www.roulettewars.com (the faq's page) for you to read up on his "crime". Although this does not bear any relevance on his system (in my opinion) and its effectiveness. However one might say that it does to an extent in regards to trust, but personally it doesnt bother me because if you take the time to speak to the guy, he is indeed a very normal person. We've all fcuk'd up, intentionally or not.

Excuse if i sound like i am licking arse here, im not - it just prooves that people really do not do any research.

Not a direct attack on you poit, im just surprised that you didnt look it up before posting your comment thats all.

Well I figure anything I find could just be more crap any way so I best ask the person him self

Poit, yes it's true but you've probably read rubbish about it from people trying to discredit me, or articles that never tell the accurate and whole story. Competitors distort everything to make me appear like I'm charles manson, when the truth is it was one of many promotions from my company - I never had problems with the others. Full details are at http://www.genuinewinner.com/rentech.htm - It has no bearing on anything here. If I wanted to hide it, I wouldnt be using my distinct surname. Almost all my players already know about it, they just dont care - it has been openly discussed on my player forum many times.

Ronjo I forgot about Australia day (public holiday) so everything was closed. Everything is ready to go though and I'll let you know when it's on the way.

Hi Steve,

I am ready whenever you are,I know you are a busy man with a lot on your plate.If you are shipping the goods across it will probably be here in about ten days,unless it is priority mail, it will be a couple of days.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Ronjo check your PM. I want to arrange a call between you and one of my profit split partners. I dont want the jurisdiction released though. Yes according to the stooges I dont have such partners, and you'll learn a whole lot of other things from the stooges that just arent true.

Hi Steve,

Thanks I have read the PM.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Scatter chart from one of the dvds:



It's a hit rate of about 1 in 17. This is on the mk7, with the prediction 7-8 seconds before the ball falls. Only average accuracy settings were used. I was using the teflon ball which is lighter. Some of the videos Ronjo will have will be published online, but not all to maintain secrets.

Ok, I've read through almost every post in this thread... Except for the 2 million words ones where you (Steve) waste time on defending against these Mark, Forester and Bago whom I don't have any interest in following up in any way...

I am a bit shocked though since I thought the test was going to be in November when you got your Mk7 Wheel...
The reason I'm shocked is because I thought it would already have been done by now!

Well... I understand the problem with Lanky's health and all... But I regret to say I'm a bit confused here.
Is Ronjo going to come visit you in Australia or not?


I'm developing a dynamic system program for automatic betting on specific online casinos. I've made about $1000 in 3 weeks after losing some $300 in the beginning, when the program was in early stages of development...

It's not 100% solid though since you can't beat a RNG in the long run. It abuses the fact that some of the so called Random Number Generators that are used in some of the modified versions of the Licensed casino software (Playtech, Cryptologic and Chartwell) aren't infact entirely random.

When I get enough cash I am definitely going to get in touch with you, providing Ronjo approves your claims and all...
I love beating the man... Bwin closed my account when I Was going to cash out €900 and refused my withdrawal making up false claims that I had provided false birth date information...
If I could beat the real man in real life, making money from it, that would be even more wonderful.

Rob the robber
Con the conman
Scam the scammer

Just so everyone knows in Steves absence. The above post i am 80% sure is either Mark Howe or Tony Bago (ex french player who didnt comprehend the system)
Below is quoted from Steve's roulette wars site.

Quoted Text

The bottom line is he had an extremely poor understanding of both my computer and system. His understandings were in fact so poor, that I insisted to speak with him via phone to help him. However, he refused my call claiming he didn't speak english well enough

This MammoL character's bad english to me suggests he is Tony Bago.Ignore this idiot.

Its pretty  easy to see who it is, and its not Mark.  Apart from that, the system that circulates is far from being the best way to track the fingerprint of a dealer/wheel/ball ensemble.  Its nicely written but the basis is not maximized, worst case scenario is that you end up betting between two moving maximums.

The weakness in the system is contrary what many thinks that the definition of the peaks is based on larger samples rather than smaller. When its based on larger samples, there will also be higher degree of new physical changes embedded.

Finding 1 half with a higher probability rather than the other half is what we all at some point has tryed to find. So that part is not new. Using 11 numbers as sector size rather than 2 - 6  numbers (using vis - a - vis, when there is no vis a vis 1 , 3 or 5 numbers) means that you won`t be able to react quickly to new physical changes but will be stuck with a large sector bet on the wrong side of the wheel based on a large spin sample, which is way more expensive than chasing high probability sectors with smaller betting sectors. A rule of thump in dealer signature, is that every third spin is a chaotic spin where randomness is taking over rather than the monotomity of the wheel/dealer ensemble.

1 Simple improvement would be to implement the rule where 80% of all spins should be not ONLY in 1 wheel half, but also could be in two 1/4 of a wheel directly across from each other, like a X instead of a -

Quoted from 2004

Now anandram will have to find another excuse in order to explain why people purchasing Stefano's system only lose money.
Oh stop, he will claim Kelly is Mark, Bago or Forester discrediting Stefano once again.

I told you anandram that smart roulette players reckon that Stefano's system is a joke to beat modern wheels, it is very obsolete, that's why people are distributing his ebook for FREE. Stefano's players do not represent concurrence, believe me.

Now please find other excuses, independant players are claiming the same as me, IT SUCKS. Do you understand my poor english?
Yes, i guess, otherwise you would not answer with your pathetic excuses and lies.

ps: already 46 people have downloaded the mess, i'm proud of myself, it means Stefano won't receive 46*2,500=115,000$, you will get no commission poor anandram.

I told you before that i dont get any commission from anything. I dont have Steves system. At least this other chap Kelly is presenting some sort of explanation as to why he believes the system is not very effective, you Mr Bago just sound like someone who didnt "get it" in the first place and have relied on third party information to conclude your understanding of his system. Noone can take you seriously Bago because you present your opinion like an immature little baby, which leads people to believe you simply couldnt comprehend Steve's system.

Consider this: When you buy a brand new product from a shop and get home and use it - if you thought the product was brilliant and understood how it worked etc, do you ring up the shop and express your satisfaction - no you dont. If you were displeased in the slightest, do you ring up the shop and express your distain, yes. This is all you are doing.

I am interested in Kelly's interpretation of the system but have no room for crybabies (bago), but figure Steve will correct you because i am not going to pretend i know his system inside out, because i dont. You sound like you know what you are talking about Kelly, and will look forward to Steve's response to you "disapproving" of his system? Kelly - i would also like to know your opinion on how you might explain Steve's online videos/other videos regarding proof where profits are clearly soaring with application of his system? In theory your counter-argument to Steve's system sounds very fancy and correct, but the proof suggest otherwise...?

I have made plenty spin samples using VB on private wheels where some of them were better than averager and some of them was worse than average and some of them extremely good.


By posting a good spin sample you are more like showing how the system works when it does well, and obviously that is what you want when you wanna present something. There would be no point in publishing a bad streak because people would say, hey i can do that in a random game.

Some call it manipulation, but its not quite fair and not a discussion i wanna be a part of,  because if one finds a wheel with that environment, it can actually be played successfully. Critics will argue that the conditions are too fabricated to match real conditions, which is in some areas correct, but in other older casinos you might actually stumble over such conditions.

I hope you understand that i won`t take any side of either Steve nor Forester/Bago  nor Mark. A critical reply of Steve can easyli be taken wrong by Steve and used for reference to one of the others. All participants has in my opinion some weak points and personally i play something entirely different that has a basis in Scott but also an element of Caleb Johnson. I don`t think anyone is playing quite like that and that is not a critic of either Scott or Caleb, it just shows that many components can be added up to a personal system. For instance not many uses 2 reference diamonds when they play semitilted wheels and uses the second diamond for pinpointing the drop diamond and you won`t find any instructions on the net for it.  

Please keep me neutral, because i simply don`t have time for scimming the net for new abuses everyday as in Steve/Mark/Forester/Bago style. We should all be in the same boat, but because of business and personal issues, we aint.

Quoted from Kelly

I have made plenty spin samples using VB on private wheels where some of them were better than averager and some of them was worse than average and some of them extremely good.


By posting a good spin sample you are more like showing how the system works when it does well, and obviously that is what you want when you wanna present something. There would be no point in publishing a bad streak because people would say, hey i can do that in a random game.

Some call it manipulation, but its not quite fair and not a discussion i wanna be a part of,  because if one finds a wheel with that environment, it can actually be played successfully. Critics will argue that the conditions are too fabricated to match real conditions, which is in some areas correct, but in other older casinos you might actually stumble over such conditions.

I hope you understand that i won`t take any side of either Steve nor Forester/Bago  nor Mark. A critical reply of Steve can easyli be taken wrong by Steve and used for reference to one of the others. All participants has in my opinion some weak points and personally i play something entirely different that has a basis in Scott but also an element of Caleb Johnson. I don`t think anyone is playing quite like that and that is not a critic of either Scott or Caleb, it just shows that many components can be added up to a personal system. For instance not many uses 2 reference diamonds when they play semitilted wheels and uses the second diamond for pinpointing the drop diamond and you won`t find any instructions on the net for it.  

Please keep me neutral, because i simply don`t have time for scimming the net for new abuses everyday as in Steve/Mark/Forester/Bago style. We should all be in the same boat, but because of business and personal issues, we aint.

Agreed regarding the netural comment.
I still find some slight flaws in what you refer to in regards to "manipulation" though. In a nutshell you say that the videos may just be the "best of the best" in regards to Steve's system effectiveness. However, Steve quite clearly  shows his system which goes through a losing streak and then recovers, so im not sure how your above comment applies?

The comment you made about "posting a sample of how the system does when it does well", isnt this the point of an effecvtive system and indeed the point of "proof of effectivness"? I think the point which should be considered is that the system DOES do well (yes) when applied correctly and in the correct conditions - but this should be a fundamental awareness for players.

Im just confused as to why you believe that he should post a sample of how the system fairs when NOT applied correctly and therefore have a video showing loss in profit.

The point is that people want to see that when applied correctly and in the right conditions, profits can be gained? Which he shows on three different samples.

Well, that is what he shows. A streak that does well, the minor draw down is not what i consider a bad streak. A bad streak usually feels like you are being skinned alive because everything you do is done correct, but you keep losing.

Im not saying he should post a bad streak, but im saying its hard to post something that won`t be used AGAINST him by the other vendors. Its either too good or too bad, you can always take a stand against him and so can he against them.

My opinions on his systems is based on my own knowledge rather than on Steves knowledge. Steve has given his directions in the script, and i know that it can be done better because his basics has been testet extensively in Europe already in the 90`s.

I have worked a LOT with dealers signature before the Starbursts hit our Casinos. I have spun private wheels with a friend of mine who used to be a dealer, but now works in surveillance and we set up all kind of environments and you can easyly create a winning environment in the living room that you won`t find in a casino.  

Thats why i don`t consider it a some sort of a proof that he posts a video. You can "easyli" lose 100 units even though you know at this point you actually has a 20% edge and that the scatter is simply playing tricks on you.  A significant proof is extremely hard to provide if you want it to be solid and would probably take 3 - 4 days with 500 spins each day and a neutral controller present before it could be considered mathematical sound. If it should also be monitored by camera, well, it will never take place.

I played with a well known team for 3 months a couple of years back, and my profits weren`t considered skill based before they broke throgh the 3 standard deviations benchmark at around 2100 spins if i recall it correct.  

I have been informed (not by Steve) that his methods are a lot more than Dealer sig. Not everything he teaches is in that document, my point being that not to judge his knowledge by one document.

I believe he purposely leaves out the finer details because of people like Bago who may do exactly what Bago done yesterday (publicly release the doc). I believe you have to contact him once trust is gained in orde for him to explain the finer details.


Aside from that and regarding the proof, ok, forget the video demo, how would you dissapprove of the online videos he has of large profits in around 1hr? "controlled environment"?? No. it clearly shows the effectiveness does it not?

Are you saying that the information/methods in the primordials document is not effective?

Well, they might be effective in some environment, all im saying is that there are better ways, that works in controlled but also not so controlled environments  as the ones in the demos.  I know for a fact that in many of the european casinos, he won`t make a lot of money with the download method. In a lot of places he won`t even be able to track a wheel that qualifies. And IF a wheel qualifies i believe he will soon be in trouble. On the other hand, im not saying they don`t exists in Europe, they are just hard to find. For example in San Remo, Italy, they have some 50 - 60 wheels but change the dealer every 12 - 15 minutes and you will only be able to track 8 - 10 spins with that dealer. In germany a dealer lasts 1/2 hour but they have a slow modus operandi and you still wont get more than 8 or 10 spins in each direction in each shift. You need a faster, different and more precise tracking method for that kind of game.  On top of that, the ball types is a bit more alive than the ones in the videos.

All i can judge is the documents i have seen. He might have better, i don`t know.  

Having said all this, i think the document is well written and is basicly better than most other methods discussed on the boards because it takes physical components in consideration.

Quoted from Kelly

Well, they might be effective in some environment, all im saying is that there are better ways, that works in controlled but also not so controlled environments  as the ones in the demos.  I know for a fact that in many of the european casinos, he won`t make a lot of money with the download method. In a lot of places he won`t even be able to track a wheel that qualifies. And IF a wheel qualifies i believe he will soon be in trouble. On the other hand, im not saying they don`t exists in Europe, they are just hard to find. For example in San Remo, Italy, they have some 50 - 60 wheels but change the dealer every 12 - 15 minutes and you will only be able to track 8 - 10 spins with that dealer. In germany a dealer lasts 1/2 hour but they have a slow modus operandi and you still wont get more than 8 or 10 spins in each direction in each shift. You need a faster, different and more precise tracking method for that kind of game.  On top of that, the ball types is a bit more alive than the ones in the videos.

All i can judge is the documents i have seen. He might have better, i don`t know.  

Having said all this, i think the document is well written and is basicly better than most other methods discussed on the boards because it takes physical components in consideration.

Correct, people can only judge what they have seen, but i know that there is more to it than whatever is in the document. You are also correct in saying the methods are effective in the some environments, but Steve does not hide this fact. Most of the testimonials and his text on his site state that you need to find the right conditions before playing, so this is no secret.

There may well be better ways and these ways may be the ones not documented by Steve to preserve his secrets. Im assuming this is one of the main reasons why Steve advises that contact with him is the number 1 key to any kind of success with his methods.

Good to be able to converse about this instead of having to deal with erratic child like posts.

What are these "better methods" you speak of anyway?

I have said a million times that dealer signature and the primordials are only a small part of my methods. You have clowns like Bago trying to convince people of otherwise. I see Bago is trying to distribute a document telling everyone this challenge doesnt need to take place now. Bago what are you afraid of? If you want to see an outline of what I teach, download http://www.genuinewinner.com/gw.zip

By the way Bago, many people who see the primordials document, even an older one, tend to increase their interest in my methods because they see it is based on real science, not hocus pocus. You may actually be benefiting me.

Yes it is obvious who Mamool was - Bago, who doesnt have a clue what he's saying. Really some of what is being said here is so far off the mark that it is not worth correcting. I get very tired of it. Like for example Bago is saying I'm wrong for covering 19 numbers in my video. Actually Bago, with many methods, covering more numbers wont increase your edge, but it increases your winnings. Bago really doesnt have any idea what he says. Bago in his infinite wisdom should know in reality players cover anywhere from 1 - 11 numbers, and very rarely more.

Indeed there have been players that have struggled. Is it really my doing? Consider this: when a player like "highlander" has access to virtually every proven effective method including but not limited to visual ballistics, but they cant make it work, does that suggest I'm a scammer, or the player has no idea what they're doing? Kelly, how would you feel if you were trying to teach someone VB and they couldn't understand even some basic concepts, then they call you a scammer? By the way, Uchimata is well known on my forum - he was banned as a player. Before he was banned, he announced he won over $100,000 with bias analysis. So why was he calling me a scammer? I'm not sure about that - he wins a huge amount then attacks me for it. He argued that the primordials dont work. Actually they do, but even if they didnt, then why not just focus on another method I teach? Is it really that hard?

Kelly, on one hand you have a few morons like Bago. On the other hand there are players that know better and swear to be succeeding with my methods. Some have posted here, and one of them even gave the testimonial at http://www.genuinewinner.com/Testimonial7CSUSA.wma - is the testimony of all people Bago credible? Considering he recently clearly demonstrated confusion between correlation charts and bias analysis, a colossal mistake, I'd say it's safe to say Bago is an amateur, and he's defending his honor like a child. True Kelly you can only judge what you know, but you know only a fraction of the whole picture. Specifically with the primordial 1 which Bago terms dealer signature: while I have clearly stated many times it is most certainly not my most effective method, does it not work or something? Read and understand it, and you'll see an edge can be achieved. The question is more can such conditions be found? Yes, but they are rare. Everyone that is a genuine player knows I tell them to avoid primordial 1 because it has very strict rules that are hard to come by. So what do I teach players:

1. Everyone starts out with the primordials document sop they can understand what a correlation chart is, and the basic dynamics of ball ballistics.

2. Once the player has read and understood the basics, based on where they play and what is possible, they begin to learn what they'll actually apply. This can be anything from visual ballistics to custom variants. I teach virtually every advantage method there is.

Sure, you heard from Bago that custom variants dont exist. Like I would ever trust such a child with such methods. CVs are simply a combination of techniques and pattern types for a combined overall edge. There is nothing odd or magical about them - it is plain science. They are only mystical to morons that dont know any better. Kelly if you want to get involved, we can involve you too, then you can see for yourself what I've been saying.

What still amazes me is that the same idiots attacking me are praising techniques like visual ballistics and bias analysis - which are only a part, but still part of what I teach. Why do they attack me? For varied reasons. Bago, highlander and uchimata, I'm not exactly concerned that you want to start some big wild case against me. Highlander, if you are who I think you are, where we left things last, I asked to speak with you via the phone about some matters, mainly that you have a very poor understanding and I want to support you, but also about some things other members have told me about you. Uchimata, you were banned for good reason. Dont forget to tell the ACCC about your $100,000 winnings. Bago, hi - with you extensive experience, dont forget to tell the ACCC how evil and scamming advantage techniques are. Or perhaps you should realize to report someone, they actually have to have done something wrong. Specifically with you Bago, if I were at all dishonest, I would have kept your money but instead I refunded it as I didnt want to deal with such a child. It had nothing to do with your complaint, and every one of your complaints is addressed in detail at http://www.roulettewars.com/bago.html so everyone knows what an idiot you are. You think it was because of Mark's site, when now you know I could have had it shut down anytime. Let's look at Highlander, Uchimata and Bago - all three of them refused my support calls on the basis that they didnt speak english well enough. Coincidence? I dunno, what's the standard deviation on that? One player once reported me to the ACCC, and I provided the ACCC with all the information needed and the player ended up apologizing to me. Why if I were dishonest would I trade as a corporation when the ACCC has a mandate to pursue dishonest corporations? Perhaps I'm just honest, and perhaps my methods do work.

Anyway, let's stick to what counts: validating my claims about the computer will be very easy for Ronjo. There are many dvds to choose from, and on any one of them he can do the different diamond test where he'll see virtually all predictions within a 3 pocket arc, then bye-bye to false claims that my computer gives random predictions. This is not just a minor point - it is major, and it seems like Bago is still busting his butt to discredit the challenge and steer people away. That is why he publishes documents and tells people not to follow this challenge - he's afraid of looking like an incompetent moron.

As for the system, anyone with a neutral perspective like Ronjo need only have a few things explained to them for them to know the majority of methods I teach have nothing to do with dealers. Yes of course dealer signature has a lot to do with dealer signature, but I'm not talking about that. Bago just wants everyone to believe that. Dealer signature does indeed work though, but it is not the most practical or effective method - I have said this a million times.

Rest assured, everything will be covered with Ronjo - fromt he computer's different diamond test, to methods I teach that have nothing to do with dealer signature. In the end, all clowns like Bago can do is claim I'm Ronjo, which they already have.

With all the scammers out there that tell you that you can win millions against RNG spins betting on dozens with some secret bet, why do a few people want to focus on me? Gee do I claim to beat RNGs or something, or do I very clearly say to focus on the physics of real wheels? People attack me for varied reasons, and from this whole thing I have learned the more you are in the spotlight, the more people want to tear you down. Reality it is it is actually not a lot of people that attack me - it is only a few and they post a lot of messages. If you do thorough research you'll see a hell of a lot more people support me than attack me, but people tend to focus on the negatives. Many of my players are offering to give audio testimonials which address the rubbish Bago wants everyone to believe, and I just might take them up on that offer. At the very least, I'm putting Ronjo in touch with some of my players so he can speak to them for himself, and see what a clown Bago is.

Ronjo, I'll try and get out today to mail everything so we can conclude this. For every 1 moron like Bago that attacks me, there are literally about 50 others that feel the complete opposite, and support me. I specifically ask my players to avoid these discussions for numerous reasons. Whatever is being said, whatever is being done to attack me, whatever. All truth comes out eventually.

Don`t get me wrong Steve, i know what i need to know about Bago, do need to go deeper ?  I also stated that i can only judge what i have seen, i don`t really gives a rats a** what the rest of the vendors says about you, and i also don`t give a rats a** what you say about them, its a war you guys have to fight alone.

Like i said we should all be in the same boat but all those issues comes in the way. It has come to a point where i don`t really wanna discuss things on boards, not even in e mails, because some people feels they can intimidate one by displaying stuff that was meant for the receiver of the e mail  only.  Well they can, but only once and the damage is not the intimidation but the info that is suddenly public knowledge. And for what ? Hee look at me, see what i can post.   Idiots.

There are some genuine players around and i will stick to them although i have been inactive for almost 3 months now. My critic of your system is what it is, its based on the free documents only and obviously i can not and will not comment on anything else.  The critic of the system is no worse than it can be boiled down to bee too unflexible and too heavy to steer round on the wheel when played on a more modern and alive wheel with a higher spread.

Its true that the winnings can sometimes be higher despite a lower edge but a wider sector, but usually, if the edge is still there after the wider sector has been inforced, we will just get a more steady flow in the cash in/cash out stream, not more winnings. In fact, you might actually get less winning units if the sector is extended from 9 pockets to 19  The problem with the wider sector is that the loops between the higher probability sectors are also covered, which means that not only the 1/25 prob. pockets but also the 1/40 prob. pockets are covered and that cuts the edge and if the sector is wide enough, also the amount of profit units. But again, its individual from wheel to wheel.

That all depends on the scatter you get. Often a 5 number arc is optimal, sometimes it is half the wheel. In most cases, it is half the wheel. As for the other stuff, again you can only judge what you have seen. Anyway the offer to participate is here, but Ronjo will see all he needs anyway and most people are aware of who he is etc.

Now there's so much bla bla bla about these Bago, Forester and Mark...
Why don't you just drop it? Noone who reads this forum gives a crap about their opinions and I doubt anyone has the energy to read your constant essays about them.
I'm not trying to be a negative critic here but you're wasting your time Steve.

It seems that all this talk about ridiculous matters has also taken away the focus from what's actually worth reading in this topic.

THE TEST!

Please read my post from 30 January 2009, 2:37pm.

Patience Alarian, Ronjo's package is on it's way. Ronjo I suggest start with the different diamond test and put an end to this part, then we can take it from there. If I havent sent you the instructions I will today along with the parcel tracking details.

Ronjo, the scatter chart of the main demo I sent you is below. This is not from the tuned prediction though, it is from the raw prediction. I'll have to manually do the scatter chart from the tuned prediction, but effectiveness is clear anyway. One important thing to note is the accuracy of the computer with respect to which diamond is being hit - it is almost always correct. Anyway I'll email you more information soon. I've opted to use the simpler settings so although accuracy is not maximized, replication for you will be easier. If you do exactly what I do, you should have much the same results. But still anyway, the main point is the different diamond test, and you have plenty of spins to use. To me this challenge is more about showing everyone what incompetent morons, and plain dishonest people are out there attacking me. I have no intentions of releasing trade secrets to achieve that goal, and I dont need to anyway - that is why the different diamond test is a point to focus on.

  0:
  1: X
  2: X  X  X  X  X  X
  3: X  X
  4: X  X
  5: X  X  X
  6: X
  7: X  X  X  X
  8: X  X  X  X  X
  9: X  X  X
10: X  X
11: X  X  X
12: X
13: X
14: X  X
15: X
16:
17: X
18: X
-18:
-17:
-16:
-15: X
-14: X
-13: X
-12: X
-11: X
-10: X  X
-9: X
-8:
-7: X
-6: X  X  X
-5: X
-4: X
-3: X  X
-2: X  X  X
-1: X  X

Again this is a mk7 wheel - Huxley's current model, and it is perfectly semi-tilted so it represents about 95% of wheels out there. Predictions are quite early so there is ample time to place about 5 chips (5 numbers). The lighter teflon ball is used, not a lead sinker. Eventually I'll release the video, so everyone can see how the computer distinguishes between diamond hits etc. You can see quite frequently a horizontal diamond is hit, deflecting the ball around the wheel, so you get all the typical behavior of modern wheels. Barnett said it couldn't be done, but he can remain convinced until he sees the video for himself. Not long now.

PS - Ronjo I'll contact a few players to see if they're willing to speak to you - both system and computer players. I'm sure what they have to say will make you see clearly what fools people like Bago are. I've always said for every idiot like Bago, there are tonnes of other players that will say the complete opposite to him. Dont just take my word for it, I have every intention of arranging for you to speak with real players - both profit split partners of mine, and players that purchased from me. On this note, if any of my players reading this would like to speak to Ronjo, let me know. Ronjo will have a much better idea about me and my technology / system from people that know the difference between bias analysis and correlation charts, right Bago? For system players, I especially want whoever speaks to you to focus on the fact that just about every one of my players ignore the dealer. At most, they may stick to dealers that dont spin the wheel at warp speed. My system does not rely on dealer signature. Sure it uses such patterns if they are present and why shouldn't it. Just like custom variants use bias IF it is present. Only to the layman, someone trying to discredit me, or someone that just doesnt know any better is my system about dealer signature. If you find children like Bago credible, I am Satan himself. If you speak to "adults" that have worked with me, that have been trustworthy enough to be privy to deeper levels my non-computer prediction methods, then you will see a very different picture to what is portrayed by stooges.

To the stooges, by all means continue your desperate crusade - it's your word against people with far more integrity, plus there's a lot more of them than you.

Also Kelly, when you listen to what Forester and Bago have to say about my system, you are listening to people that really have no idea what they're talking about. There are so many misconceptions and idiots out there that have their own take on what my system is about. On one point about 333,666,999, it is because one of the pattern types uses multiples of 3 is all. If you had 334 spins it is no big deal at all. Forester doesnt know what he's on about. I'm not going to disclose all my secrets just to prove a point - I rightfully keep it to myself. At the end of the day what matters is many of my players are doing extremely well, and yes including players that use format 1. Things tend to not make sense when you dont have the full picture, or if you dont understand something. Anyway I'll address all the rubbish points from people like forester in time - but we're starting with the computer and different diamond test. After that, the stooges will lose quite a lot of credibility but it would still be far from over. Granted, a large part of forester's ravings are plain misunderstandings, lack of knowledge and ignorance. But he's so pigheaded to even consider that he is wrong, plus he gets his information from similar idiots like Bago so of course he wont get accurate information. What forester does is takes elemental (primordial) theory from a small fragment of my methods, then tries to attack it. Is he qualified to judge something he knows very little about? Is it "correct" to look at the paint job of a car and say yay or nay that the car will drive? Of course not but that's what he's trying to do, and he's trying to convince people he actually knows something about my methods. Will he ever admit he is really just speculating? Of course not - he wants to be right, and be seen by others as right - if forester was interested in the TRUTH, things would be very different. for one thing he would have agreed to meet me where he would be proven wrong, but instead he runs and hides lying to people saying I avoided meeting him. The clown has only ever seen a primordial doc and he gets information from people like bago, and two spanish players that were banned - I might add again I tried to speak to all three of them to support them, and all three of them refused because they didnt speak english well enough.. Well, it's not a coincidence - I always say the biggest factor in a player's success or failure is their communication with me. If I cant even get a player on the phone and need to chase them to support them, what hope do they have. As for Forester, yes we'll all see just how much he knows about my computer very soon, and the system will be addressed in time. Anyway I'm just saying hear it directly from me, not fourth-hand information and speculation. If you listen to idiots, you end up taking on their misunderstandings. If you want an answer to anything about my methods, you are best to ask myself directly. I am supremely confident though kelly if you did join Ronjo in the validations, that you will see just how format 1 can be used to beat modern wheels, with no attention being paid to the dealer. Based on your comments, it would be new information to you. I know that you have sound knowledge of roulette, but respectfully you dont know everything.

Ronjo, below is scatter from tuned prediction. The chart INCLUDES the qualification spins, which are still when the computer hasnt learnt the wheel. It's not as impressive as it would be if the wheel was an older design, heavily tilted and with a lead ball, but the edge is clear. The conditions used in the video are what the "experts" like Barnett claim are impossible on modern wheels, so bare this in mind. You can verify the scatter for yourself. Despite the difficulty of the conditions, the results are still actually better than Mark's computer on his heavily tilted Monte Carlo wheel with a lead-weight ball. As for Forester's computer, it wouldnt have a chance of knowing which diamond will be hit on a mk7 wheel, and with his device, predictions are random on modern wheels, just as Barnett found too. Maybe that's why Barnett doesnt believe it - because he tested rubbish while looking to steal other people's designs, claiming it was some sort of public test. Hmm. Anyway you can see some of the major problems with forester's computer at http://www.roulettecomputers.com/comparison.htm - and Forester calls me the scammer.. Really I'm not interested in attacking the moron though - I just want to defend myself.



Again although you wont have problems replicating it, the main thing to do is the different diamond test. Upon reviewing the dvd, the ball is harder to see when it spins very fast, but the ball becomes clearly visible around about where you start your clicks anyway. Some of my clicks are terrible as you'll see, so you may even do better than I did. I'll write you an email shortly with more information.

Ronjo I know you are no fool, and if I were attempting to fool you with magnets or some form of trickery, you will see it. No doubt you will be accused of being incompetent, or even being me (as you already have). No matter what, the stooges will attack what you say if it is even remotely positive. I dont think you're the type of person to really care what they say anyway - just tell it like it is. As I said from the start, I'm not interested in what the clowns will say at the end of this all because we already know what they'll say - the truth doesnt suit them. Essentially what is about to take place is the clowns will be trapped. The truth will slap them in the face, but we know they wont change their stance. Their reaction to the obvious truth says a lot about their characters. Is there anything that will make them admit the truth? Nope. Even Mark, after I released video proof, was forced into a corner and his last resort was to claim I was actually using his computers in videos. He's changed his stories many times though. Bago and Forester are no different - cowards running from the truth because it makes them look stupid.

Hi Steve,

I am ready and I would love to talk to your players,it will be a pleasure.And as for anyone to think that Ronjo and Steve are the same person would be ridiculous.There are plenty of reliable forum members here on RR and @ VLS who know who I am,and when the time comes I am sure they will back us up 100%.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Ronjo, check your email and another one coming shortly. I wouldnt worry about people accusing you of being me - it is only the stooges that say that anyway because they must. I haven't seen anyone else question your identity. Everyone at VLS knows better, and so should everyone here. And besides, you are part of a group of people that know each other. For example, you know Lanky well and have spoken to him. I'm sure there are many others that know beyond a doubt we aren't the same person. So it's not just you people will listen to, it is numerous well known and trusted members in the roulette community. This is precisely why you were one of the ideal candidates. If it were just you and you alone, then I could understand if people might question who you are. Either way at the end of at least the computer validations, I'd like to speak with you via phone and record the call.

As per my recent email, in the DVD of the MK7 wheel you need to verify the following:

1. Footage is continuous and uncut.

2. Predictions are approx 8-9 secs before the ball falls

3. Predictions are virtually instant once the button is clicked for the last time. There is no 1 second delay or such rubbish like Forester claims.

4. It is a mk7 wheel. You can tell by the diamonds and pockets mainly. NOTE: The plastic in the pockets was removed. This means the ball bounces on metal, not plastic so bounce is even greater. The zero pocket is actually blue, not green, not that it makes a difference though. The missing green made play too difficult via dvd.

5. It is a semi-tilted wheel. So there is a slight drop zone, but it's nothing like the ball hits the same diamond almost every spin.

6. Frequently the ball hits a vertical diamond, and/or clips another diamond etc, so the spins are indicative of a modern wheel.

7. The ball used is 5/8" teflon. It is the light bouncy variation, not the heavy bugger that drops straight down. This is important because the heavy variation will drop even if it hits a horizontal diamond. This is not the case with the light teflon ball because if a horizontal diamond is hit, it can easily skate to the other side of the wheel. I didnt use the 3/4" ball because it has less scatter - the bounce is more predictable. I didnt want to make it easy. Additionally a lighter ball is more affected by air pressure variations. Normally it doesnt happen so quickly, but due to melbourne's recent crazy weather, the computer needed to adjust for air pressure and ball deceleration variations at least twice I think and this was in the same hour. I mention it when it's happening in the video but it happens seamlessly anyway. Usually you dont notice it and predictions are given as normal.

8. You clearly see the computer, and the predictions on the computer's screen. The predictions are authentic and not merely voiceovers.

9. You can replicate the results achieved in the DVD and the results I achieved were not merely luck

10. Throughout the video, I show you the computer's scatter chart, and the peaks at the start of the video are in the same place at the end of the video. in other words I dont do what Mark does, which is showing raw predictions, choosing a peak then claiming that's where the edge is.

11. The scatter charts displayed above are correct.

12. Absolutely no video recorder (60FPS) is used in setting up on the wheel. The wheel is learnt exclusively from your clicks. This is important because Forester, who knows oh so much about my computer, has long claimed my computer needs to video record a spin for setup.

13. The computer is almost always correct with respect to which diamond will be hit (I forgot to add this one in the email I sent you). If you recall, Mark, who was "Vincent" on this forum, simply didnt believe it was possible. Well no, not with his junk, but my computer is a bit different.

14. The ball track has significant distortions. You can frequently hear the ball rattle, which makes ball behavior more "chaotic" and less predictable. But still predictions are accurate. I wanted you to hear the distortions which is why I used that room in the video - it echoes a lot. The room is my basement. You cant hear rattles in a real casino but it doesnt matter anyway. (I forgot to add this one in the email I sent you)

15. Most importantly: you conduct the different diamond test on multiple spins, and verify that when using the same spin, most predictions are within a 6 pocket arc after the first sample, then soon after a 3 pocket arc. If you use more clicks and become skilled at clocking, then you can comfortably start out with almost all predictions within a 3 pocket arc

Anything else you do to validate my claims is up to you. Please be very careful about what is said about the computer here - you are best to contact me directly with questions/comments while you are still getting the hang of things.

The computer in the video is the exact computer i sent you, as you can see in the scatter chart. So you can even use the computer on the dvd right away if you go into play mode. But to do the different diamond test, because my computer takes diamonds into account, you need to use different settings for the different diamond test as per my email.

Did I miss anything? And please ensure the dvd doesnt skip. Sound is NOT an indicator of whether or not a dvd skips. Bago made this mistake and was actually stupid enough to use a pc dvd player. All this and a few other things are covered in my last email, but the list of what you need to look at is here for others to see.

So it finally begins.. but it is far from over even after the above points are confirmed. After all is done, I expect there will still be doubters but I really dont care. Anyone that wants can investigate everything for themselves and decide who's been honest, and who is plain full of it.

PS - The chainsaw in the background is the neighbor cutting down trees at a bad time. He has some big trees too close to his house which is bad in bushfire season. And the thumping at the end is my wife on the floor above - she thumps 3 times when she needs help with something. I ignored her so she kept calling my phone. What a ball-breaker.

PS Ronjo I'll send you another DVD but this time with the ivorine ball. Thats because it completes more revolutions and is easier to conduct the different diamond test - it's easier to see than the small teflon ball too. I'll try and send it off within the next day or so.

I try only to comment on what i read. Forester and Bago has their opinions, they don`t influence mine. You also have your opinions, they don`t influence me either. Wether Forestes device works or not i don`t know. I know one of his buyers and has seen the device, he also offered me to borrow it so i could test it, but i was really not interested. The buyer said he hadn`t been able to make it work. He was gonna get a new and impoved model and he promised to come and see me when he had bought the new BMW he was expecting to win. Well he haven`t been here yet.

All i have read is the download and the page with the 1, 2, 3 spin format. Spin format 1 didn`t make sense. In fact, you should be able to win your own contest with that method. Format 2 and 3. Well i don`t know the rules except for what is written and i gave my opinion to that on the other board.

Hi Steve,

I have recieved the e-mails thanks,and will let you know when I receive the package.

Regards,
Ronjo.

UPDATE: As of the 9th Feb, Ronjo's computer is in South Africa just awaiting delivery.

Ronjo, I havent had the chance to do the extra dvd with the larger ball so it's easier to see, but still will soon. You should be fine with the dvds I sent though.

Hi Ronjo, still hasnt arrived? The tracking says it's still waiting to be released, but sometimes the tracking is a bit behind. Also I need you to check the version you have in global settings. I may send you an updated computer with the latest version. It isnt a difference for demo purposes, but the later version achieves higher accuracy sooner than the version you have.

On another note, Bago is going all-out attacking me on random forums now. Bago, you can go on and on and on, but in the end the truth will catch up with you, and the others. Who knows what you'll do then, who cares, but you wont admit it because you cant bare to be seen as stupid. You should rethink calling yourself the "truth seeker" because like the others, you aren't interested in the truth because of how it makes you look.

UPDATE: Ronjo I completed the new DVD with the ivorine 5/8 ball. Footage is good. Below is general information:

1. There are 100 spins.

2. Predictions are about 13 seconds before the ball falls

3. the ivorine ball is very bouncy and erratic, especially since I removed the softer plastic from the pockets, so the ball bounces on metal instead of plastic.

4. Exact number hit rate of a bit better than 1 in 20.

5. Only basic settings are used. As there are 100 spins, that's plenty to play around with the settings to see how accuracy improves.

6. The wheel is perfectly semi-tilted. The ball track has moderate distortions, and you can hear the rattle of the ball - it is quite significant. i used an "echoey" room so you can hear it better. The distortions significantly reduce accuracy. There are 3 dominant diamonds which are at 90 degree intervals. So there is one diamond, then 90 degrees across another diamond, and another diamond at another 90 degrees. Again it's a mk7 wheel, and it perfect represents 95% of wheels in modern casinos.

I'll try and ship the dvd tomorrow, but tomorrow is my call day (Thursday) so it may need to be Friday.

I deliberately didn't release anything overly sensitive in the video, so I can show it to others. If anyone wants to see it, let me know but there needs to be a reasonable level of trust - I wont just send it to anyone. Then you can have a good laugh at Bago and his claims about random predictions.

If any of forester's or mark's purchasers want to test with this footage, let me know. Their computers wouldnt have a hope of achieving such accuracy. And bare in mind I show the scatter chart at various parts throughout the demo so you know it is real, not just luck.

Hi Steve,

Yes the goods have arrived at the Durban Airport with customs and waiting to be released,the post office staff tell me this could take 2-6 weeks to to be released.I am very keen to get started.I will let you know as soon as it is released.

Regards,
Ronjo.

Bugger that's a long wait. It took no more than a week in customs for others. UK customs are the worst though. Keep an eye on your email for parcel tracking on another computer I'll send with updated software. It is very similar but is better for demo purposes as accuracy is higher earlier. I'll include the new dvd, plus an older one which is for tilted wheel. The tilted wheel one is for the older wheel. In both cases, very basic settings are used. Usually I do it that way so players can play around with the settings and see how accuracy is maximized.

PS - I checked and predictions are actually about 10 seconds before the ball falls. You can actually get earlier by a fair bit but in most cases you dont need to anyway.

Just my tupence, UK customs normally give utmost worst case scenario. It wont take that long as chances are the Post office staff are giving a rough guestimate. Much like most staff in the UK for any company (without generalising), they tend to guess alot.
Im from the UK and i have experienced this many times.

"your parcel will be with you within 1-14 working days.", and i receive it 2 days later.

Bago published a web page trying to discredit me. I updated the page at http://www.roulettewars.com/bago1.html to show what an idiot he is. Now mark howe is emailing people about bago's site. I think Mark forgot to tell everyone that Bago got mark's computer for free and believes it's a scam. I think he also forgot to tell them bago doesnt know how to read a scatter chart. Anyway see the info at the bottom half of http://www.roulettewars.com/bago1.html

I really dont know what's wrong with especially people like mark and bago. Some people are extremely screwy. Anyway here's a part of the text:

======================

To the layman, Bago's claims may appear like irrefutable proof that I'm the "scammer" he claims. To understand how manipulative he is, you need to carefully review the following:

1. He showed only HALF of the video, which is about only 50 spins. Why? Because the other half has a more favorable scatter chart, and he doesn't want you to see it.


2. In the half he did show:

a. There is indeed a peak, although it is not as clear as usual. This is exactly why he chose to show only this half of the video.

b. A level wheel is used, not an easily beaten tilted wheel.

c. A very light teflon ball is used to maximize ball bounce, and make where the ball falls from the ball track more difficult to predict.

d. Only the most basic settings are used. Why? So players can see accuracy with only elemental settings, and see how more advanced settings increase accuracy. The most advanced settings can achieve exact number hit rates of better than 1 in 15, and with predictions 10+ seconds before the ball falls.


3. Bago doesn't tell you about the freely available roulette computer videos already on my site. Why? Because they are conducted over 100 spins, double the amount of spins he shows, and the scatter chart of the computer is shown throughout the demonstration. To prove it is not merely coincidence, in one of the videos, half way through the video I reset the scatter chart and continue play. The footage is uncut. Continued play shows the peaks emerge in the same place, plus in both halves the direct number hit rate is 1 in 16. That kind of proof is nearly impossible to fake which is why I do it. Of course Bago doesn't want you to see it, or the other half of the video, or the other videos which have far more spins. Bago doesn't care about the truth because it doesn't suit him.


Now let's have a look at the chart that Bago calls "random". I added the blue line and red text to the chart:



Again while keeping in mind all the points raised above, such as the wheel being level, teflon ball is used, only basic computer settings being used, and Bago choosing the video half with the least favorable scatter chart, have a good look at the chart. You will notice the ball lands significantly more closer to the actual prediction (left and right sides of the chart). Additionally, the center of the chart has fewer values, because this is on the opposite side of the predictions, and it is no coincidence. Maybe Bago doesn't understand what he published. I believe it's both his inexperience, and that he wants to attack me relentlessly without a consideration for accuracy of statements. To anyone that actually understands the data, they can see Bago publishes data that supports me.

However, when you consider points like this and what Bago does to try and discredit me, you have to wonder WHY he has to rely on manipulating people. He is fully aware of his manipulation too. I could give many examples but one of my favorites is when he attacked my roulette forum under a fake name, his fake name was "STOPMAKINGSENSE". Bago, I'm sorry if truth makes sense - you are not just attacking me, you are attacking truth, but truth wins every time, eventually.

You can freely download a larger video with much more spins (100 spins) by clicking the image below. You can clearly see the scatter chart at various parts throughout the demo. Also bare in mind in this video too, a teflon ball is used, the wheel is level, and only the most basic settings are used. Accuracy is far greater with the more advanced settings, but still you can see even the basics settings produce high accuracy:


See video: http://www.roulettecomputers.com/demomq.wmv

NOTE: You can either order a DVD or download even higher quality footage for free from the roulette computer videos page.

Bago, again you are trying to fight against truth, not just me. Truth wins every time. I'm not interested in making you look like an idiot - you do that well yourself, and then it makes you want to attack me more. The other idiot that follows the same pattern is mark howe. I could say you both need to give up and stop wasting your life - I'm not interested in attacking you clowns. The main reason you keep attacking me is because you tend to fall flat on your face, but again this is not me - it is because you are trying to attack truth. I know neither of you will stop, because of your learning disability. Nevermind.

dont these guys have anything better to do rather than call you a scammer?

Apparently not. You dont know half of it Anandram. What these guys do to try and harm me. Especially mark howe. Really he is a sick person. It's one thing to say that but to see everything this clown says and does is astonishing. If I published every little detail, truly it would be like a full time job. PS - Now mark calls himself "Professor Mark Anthony Howe" on his site. Not sure what else to say about this sick individual, but he used to give himself the title ESQ too. If I told everything about mark and bago, I would just waste time but people would have a better understanding that both of them literally appear to be sick, and it is not an exaggeration. Forester is not a sick person, he is just arrogant and ignorant, and doesnt want to look bad by being wrong, but he has a lot more sanity and reason that the others so there is at least some hope for working things out with forester, but I dont think his ego will let him - I already tried to work things out like men by calling him, be he acted like a dickhead.

Bago and Mark, I'll give this to you both in terms you can understand: if you are playing roulette betting on red/black and keep losing, dont go back to the ATM thinking you'll win back your losses. You are just going to lose again. What you two are doing is like going back to the ATM more and more, but each time your bets are higher and more intense, like your efforts. But the result is the same. Is it smart to just cut your losses and walk away, or keep trying harder? There is nothing either of you can do to change truth. Yes you probably both know that, but truth isnt what counts to you clowns, is it? And I've said it many times, what you do to harm people comes right back at you. Yes yes I know, it's hippie crap that isnt true. Learn for yourself.

Each time you come up with absolute rubbish, and because you lie, distort truth or whatever, your claims are so easy to debunk. Then when your lie is exposed, you try something else. You guys have attacked everything conceivable about me, including tv and carpets in photos, and even they are addressed at http://www.roulettewars.com - when will it stop? When will you idiots get a life of your own? Probably never because you want to win like a pouting child. Trust me on this my friends, you are going to harm yourselves far more than you'll harm me. I sincerely wish you all the best, I really do, but am not so sure you reciprocate.

Here's another recent attack, this time from Mark. He's emailing people on his database saying that I influence the spins in my videos yadda yadda etc.. As per roulettewars.com:

======================

At the following website, Mark published an article about himself. He even publishes a photo of my roulette computer on my roulette wheel. Mark posts an additional message on this page, and says:

"come and try the products yourself just like the guardian Reporters did, set up on a level wheel, i can beat level and titled wheels with my mobile phones. Check out the video evidence at http://roulettecomputers.com"

Unbelievably he is trying to claim my websites and videos are actually his. Additionally, in the same post, he lies claiming I cheat in all my videos by using dealer signature. In other words, he is stealing credit for my video, claiming he owns my site roulettecomputers.com, all while claiming I'm a fraud and I cheat in my videos. See it all for yourself at:

See for yourself at http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/roulette-computer-inventor-claims-advantage-over-casino-918809/

Is this person sick or what?

I might add Mark claims the demo to the Guardian newspaper was on a level wheel. This is a lie. If you read Guardian's article, it is made quite clear the demo was on a tilted wheel. Specifically the whole article is about exploiting flawed wheels, and it states "Mark Howe, who sells the devices for £1,000 from a workshop in Sheffield, claims his software will also work on level wheels". The more you learn about Mark, the more you learn he may literally be a pathological liar.

=========================

Anyway it's all at roulettewars.com for anyone that bothers to find out for themselves what a pathetic moron he is.

Mark, hi. Remember all you need to do is stop attacking me like a pathetic moron, and get a life of your own. I'm not interested in attacking you, only DEFENDING myself. If I wanted to attack you my friend, it would be quite different. Bare in mind everything that harms you is pretty much just my response to your attacks. They are not attacks on you, just defence, and that's what's making you look like a dickhead. You are doing it yourself. This issue about the videos is a perfect example - you did this to yourself. You astound me "howe" you dont seem to learn - when you try and invalidate truth, or when you try to lie, truth wins every time - eventually. So much more I could say, but peace be with you buddy, Professor Mark Anthony Howe ESQ :)

PS - I just noticed mark had the article and his comment removed. But dont worry, Google cache to the rescue. See:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:MACe18RGJbUJ:www.gearlive.com/news/article/roulette-computer-inventor-claims-advantage-over-casino-918809/+roulette+compute+inventor+gearlive&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

Too bad about the google cache, despite your efforts to remove the page in panic. If you weren't aware of your blatant manipulation, why remove the original page? Wow what can you say, Mark? Nothing, you can only intensify your efforts to try and discredit me and boost your own business, as per usual. Hey that's just like Bago who can't say much about his scatter chart. You really are all like stooges - you fall flat on your face. Anyone who actually follows the situation knows the truth now anyway, even solely based on how desperate you are to attack me. I wonder WHY all of you have to rely on lies and deception to try and discredit me.. perhaps because the truth would only give me credit? On another note, on the gearlive page, mark says he has the original program from the Eudemons. Why dont we ask them ourselves: http://www.thomasbass.com - Thomas confirmed himself he has never had anything to do with him, and he did NOT even post the message at Mark's forum http://www.b2g5.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1118169565&user=mahony - Mark even posts a fake ip address, and he's the only one with authority to post on his forum. Mark has even impersonated me multiple times, once even pretending that I was apologizing to him saying he was for real. This is barely nothing compared to his other lies. Really he is a sick person, and it is no exaggeration, he really does need help. Really I could go on forever about this moron but he is just a sick person trying to sell an ineffective product and convince everyone he's king, that is the bottom line.

@ Everyone: you can see why these idiots are so motivated to harm or discredit me. When they fall on their face, as Bago just did also with the scatter chart, they want to get revenge. I suggest cut your losses boys and get on with life, or you'll just bring yourselves down more. I really dont wish harm on you, despite what dickheads you are. Why cant we all be friends and play something like scrabble? When you stop attacking me, I will stop embarrassing you by telling everyone the truth - simple as that. You decide.

Hi Steve,

Just an update,still no package.But Iwill let you know ASAP when it arrives.

Best regards,
Ronjo.

No problem. I've only had problems with customs once, but that was with UK services - notoriously unreliable. It eventually got there though but there's no hurry.

Bago tried to defend himself with relation to the chart. I'll make this quick, and Bago, you only made yourself look stupid again:

1. Bago claims a high point should be 8 pockets, and a low pocket should be 8 pockets. WRONG. You look at HALF of the wheel, which is 18 pockets and 18 pockets (actually one needs to be 19 pockets because there are 37 pockets). Honestly Bago you keep doing it to yourself. The only way it would be an arc other than half the wheel is with completely different settings, but bago has no idea about even the most basic settings and certainly not anything more advanced.

Let's look at the chart again. The green sector is the wheel half with the prediction, and the red area is the wheel half opposite the prediction:



Again this is only with the most basic settings, level wheel, light teflon ball etc etc and Bago says it is easy conditions? Yes he must be extremely experienced. But anyway, so WHY did Bago try and say to look at 8 pockets? Because the data would suit him in that case, and he's a manipulative child. He wants to count only the unfavorable 8 pockets in the center of the red zone, rather than a larger and two times more relevant 18 pocket arc. I'm sorry Bago.. actually no I'm not.

2. Bago says he doesnt show half the video, then he says he showed the full qualification video. Hmm ok, the video has two halves. You admitted only to showing the first half without even realizing it. As I said previously, if anyone wants to see the dvd sent to Ronjo, plus the new video I'll do soon, let me know so you can have a good laugh at Bago, before I publicly released the video eventually. Again though there at least needs to be some element of trust with whoever sees it.

3. Bago completely ignores the other videos which are twice as long, and where the scatter chart is shown on the computer throughout the video. In the video on the site, and the one he's referring to, even though only the basic settings are used, the edge is very clear. Even mark and forester aren't game enough to claim the chart is bad, because if they do they know they'll only discredit themselves. Maybe bago is stupider than first thought. Mark mass emailed people about bago's site like a desperate fool, but of course he wouldn't dare try and analyze the chart because even he knows it shows a clear edge.

Anyway Bago, sorry but it is clear you dont want to quit but anyone that looks into it can see you are either an incompetent clown trying to invalidate truth, or a manipulative child stomping his feet trying to look "right" - reality is it's a bit of both. The only way he can look right is if he hides things like the 100 spins video at http://www.roulettecomputers.com/demomq.wmv and tries to convince people to look at 8 pocket arcs instead of 18 pocket arcs. If the chart looked ideal for him using 5 pocket arcs, he'd say you need to look at 5 pocket arcs instead. He's acting like a trapped wombat in the corner, biting and biting desperately without logic - talk about desperate. If even mark isnt stupid enough to analyze the chart, what does it say about Bago?

By the way Bago, I could have your site suspended without a problem, like what happened with foresters and mark's, on numerous occasions. I just cant be bothered pursuing it, and you only make yourself look stupid in it anyway. Have a good day bago. I'm truly convinced you have mental problems, it is not just your age. You have the same kind of impulsive and wacky personality as mark, but mark still takes the cake as king clown. And please dont call me a fat pig. That really, really, reeaaallly hurts my feelings. I think I'll go cry now. Just please dont stick your finger up at me, or I'll be devastated.

Hi Ronjo, check your PM with regards to speaking to one of my partners.

He's one of many more you can speak to, but I suggest we start with him and if what he has to say isnt enough, we can arrange calls with many others. Overkill? Yes. You only need to have the computer yourself anyway.

Hi Steve,

UPDATE: I have recieved the computer today,so I will spend the next few days going through the DVD'S and will post as I go along with the testing.

Best Regards,
Ronjo.

wohoo! Let the games begin.

Hi Ronjo, No problem. I've been away for about a week and just got back. I've got a lot of catching up to do with emails etc but I still have to send you:

1. New dvd on mk7 wheel with ivorine ball, demonstrating diamond hit predictions on near level wheel.
2. New version (which has a few improvements but nothing majorly different from version you have - it's just mainly more practical)

But you already have everything you need to at the very least do the different diamond test. With the ivorine ball and mk7 wheel you'll get even better results because the ball deceleration is smoother. Almost all predictions within 3-6 pocket arc is even easier with the ivorine.

Regarding speaking to one of my partners, I'll detail this soon. The one I mentioned so far is eager to speak with you, and he'll specify results he's been getting in casinos.

There is some debate on forester's forum about bago's chart. Kelly, I agree with you that the chart doesnt have enough spins for reliable analysis. I already said that in previous posts. That's why I referred to the video which is twice as large, with 100 spins at http://www.roulettecomputers.com/demomq.wmv - keep in mind this video shows the scatter chart. After 50 spins, I reset the chart then do it again from scratch. What is the result? Peak in the same place. Wow what are the chances of that? Bago ignores it, and a whole lot of other stuff because it doesnt suit him.

@ Kelly, if you want to get involved, I'll send you about 200 spins (continuous footage) where you can compare predictions and where the ball landed, then decide for yourself who is full of it. Regardless, forester determines computer accuracy with the different diamond test, and it is so easy to do with my computer. That test will show everyone what morons bago and forester are, and put to rest their ridiculous claims that predictions are random.

Like I also said previously, neither the video at my site, or the video bago has even shows maximum accuracy. I will send Ronjo (and kelly if he wants) a DVD of about 200 spins showing maximum accuracy on the mk7 wheel). I thought I made this clear and the reasons for it, but perhaps people like forester would like to focus on what suits them. Another consideration is Bago never knew even the most basic features of my computer and he never knew how to use it. I dont doubt Ronjo will do a lot better than him.

Anyway, Ronjo I'll send you the video with the mk7 and diamond isolation, and perhaps I'll send you forester's FF since there is debate of whether or not my computer predicts better than Forester's rubbish. Ronjo would you like to test forester's FF too to confirm what I'm saying? It's up to you, but either way I think perhaps I'll at least release a video of Forester's device predicting the same 200 spins, with my clicks visible, so we all know simple truth. Bare in mind so far one of forester's purchasers have already tested against same spins my computer was tested against, on the mk7 wheel, and his results were virtually random whereas my computer demonstrated very good results. It's a pity this player wont come forward out of fear from forester, but other players of forester's will see it for themselves when the footage is released for everyone to see. Forester cant say I manipulated the video because his other players can test his computer for themselves on the spins. However, I am not interested in telling forester how he can improve his device, except to say his first mistake is not using polynomials.

@ Bago, you are just an idiot. I'll let you have your site at least for now I just dont care. Even the other players considered you a complete idiot. As for all this talk about charts, you completely ignore the chart in the video at http://www.roulettecomputers.com/demomq.wmv among other things. Anyone that actually looks into this stuff sees how you manipulate. Go for it. Just PLEASE, PLEASE, stop calling me a fat pig. It is devastating my ego and I can't live with it much longer. child. I must say though bago, I do believe you have real problems with anger - I think you have problems beyond just anger management though. You are angry because you are made to look stupid, but you yourself said to me you have "issues". As always, despite that I consider you a complete tosser, I do wish you the best Bago, seriously although feelings aren't mutual. Can i just suggest though to perhaps meditate a little. Only someone unhappy with their own life can be as aggressive as you.

Ronjo, I sent you a PM about speaking with the partner. As I said he's a new partner, and has tested in casinos so can tell you more about what you are going to find for yourself. There are many others you can speak to, but the one now arranged is most appropriate. Oh hang on, didnt Mark Howe say I don't have partners? Oh that's right, Mark is just a "richard", and he doesnt want people to know they can get my computer free instead of paying for his scam.

@ Bago, I'll just correct you on something. Betting 1 number gives you the highest EDGE, but betting more numbers gives you the highest PROFIT. What matters most? Why do you think computer players aim to cover more numbers? What is more relevant - a 18 pocket arc, or an 8 pocket arc? Gee I wonder. Anyway Mr Pro, I'll let you postulate in your armchair.

I have been watching this thread with great interest.
Can't wait to see the results.

In the end, the stooges will only say Ronjo is me under a fake name. Bago already did that in anticipation of the results, yes and he calls himself the "truth seeker" - more like a stupid kid wanting everyone to believe he's a pro. Most people know Ronjo well enough to know he certainly isnt me, which is why he was chosen. Poor Bago. Well he did bring it on himself.

Anyway, Ronjo just needs the access code for the games to commence. But as per my previous post, I will be sending him a better/clearer video with the mk7 wheel. Especially when it comes to the different diamond test, results are much better with the ivorine ball as deceleration is smooth, but even with the current dvd Ronjo has, he will easily be able to see results I claim for himself.

As for Forester and Mark, well when I get around to showing videos of their device's accuracy on the same spins, they'll have a lot to explain. Or maybe they'll worm out of it by claiming I used some invisible manipulation and they'll leave it at that. There is so much I could do that would embarass the hell out of them, but really I have better things to do - I just want the truth known about my own systems/devices.

Not long now everyone.

If you do get around to showing their devices, i think it would be great to have all 3 going at the same wheel
at once to really see the effectiveness of them all.

Then again, some will inevitably say you fixed the results somehow.

Still, it would be interesting to say the least.

I can hook up the same cable to all three devices, but they all will give predictions at different times and have different requirements. Forester's device needs clicking within a time window, but mark's computer can take clicks wherever as mine can, so it can be done with marks' device. It could probably be done with forester's too provided the same sample spin was used. But to do all three at the same time wouldn't be simple. I also have to consider the input of the winning number, but neither mark's or forester's computer are capable of that - with their devices you need to create a scatter chart on paper then manually adjust the computer. Covert? No.

Anyway, eventually I'll demonstrate their devices too for a public video release. Of course they'll say I cheated somehow to give poor results for their computers and positive results for my computer, but I'll show all the clicks and correct setup procedures. Anyone who has any of the devices can test for themselves and see much the same results. In public demos, mark's computer is very clearly a scam after the first few spins. With foresters FFZ the zap's impracticality is very obvious. The FFZ algorithms are too simplistic, and they are shared by the FFA. I dont have forester's FFA though but if the algorithms are the same as FFZ, I only need FFZ. Honestly everyone that has seen a comparison of the computers in person knows very clearly which device is better. Worst of all is mark's. Forester's has merit but is not anywhere near as good as he claims. This is the simple truth, but forester goes so far to call me a "scammer". I've never called forester a "scammer" because that wouldnt be accurate - the terms "dickhead", "poor product" and "exaggeration" would be though.

UPDATE: Ronjo just needs the code to unlock the computer. Ronjo as per my message, you need to send me the code the computer states so I can send you the unlock code.

On another note, as if we all didnt already know Mark Howe owns roulettecomputerreviews.com, today I had it confirmed by his web host. I have had his site shut down about 6 times, but each time he just moved to another host. This time he stayed with his host and submitted a DMCA counter-notification. That means I need to take it to court from this point on. To avoid committing perjury, Mark had to use his real name on his counter-notification. I have the full letter he sent to his host. But Mark claims he operates the website under the supervison of the non-existent Professor Johansen. Anyway as if we didnt already know Mark owns that site, but now there is proof.

Mark, here's what's wrong with your case. I suggest you read Bago's contracts:

1. Who we deal with is our Intellectual Property.

2. Any confidential information, as specified on the contracts, is our Intellectual Property.

Basically you can't legally say anything. Sorry. It allows me to shut down even Forester's site, and certainly Bago's but I have better things to do than continuously have sites shut down. I only skimmed over your letter to your host and saw it was clear you really dont have a clue what IP is. i'm not even going to bother addressing the other rubbish you spun to your host, but pay attention to the statement you made in your letter to your host:

"I, Mark Anthony Howe, swear under the penalty of perjury...."

Committing perjury just so you dont have to move hosts, and can keep your lies online for a bit longer.. is it really worth it? I don't think you have a full realization of what you have given me the opportunity to do, if I can be bothered.

take him to the cleaners Steve - his karma is about due i think.

If Mark had money, I would have taken him to court already. Anyway if I wanted to harm him, I could do many other things including pursue a very strong harassment case against him and have him charged, and potentially banned from Internet access. At the moment the police just require the last of the call logs and emails, and I havent had time yet. So I just requested they shut down another of his sites for now, which they did. Despite me wanting nothing to do with this clown, he appears to still be literally obsessed with me. The public doesnt know even half of it.

He probably had a dream that he would be roulette computer master, but then you crushed it and now he's pissed. Think that sounds about right.

on a more comedic note - how the frig do they ban you from internet access?

It's like an intervention order. If they access the telecommunications device after being banned for whatever period, they can actually go to jail because it is breaking a court order. Of course they can try an internet cafe or something, but they run a serious risk for something petty. Speaking of petty, Bago has gone all-out publishing everything he can think of because I didnt give a toss about his website. But now I'll teach him a lesson. If I wanted to play his immature games though I'd be publishing copies of his passport and photos of where he lives with mum and dad, like the big pro player he is. If I wanted to play stupid games I'd also publish photos of mark's and forester's houses. But who cares, it is just kindergarten games I dont have time for. Thing is they do and say everything conceivable, and to me that just looks DESPERATE from idiots who cling to anything possible. Really they do it with anything imaginable, and this is not even considering the rubbish they say with what is actually relevant. Anyway Bago is just getting very desperate because he knows what's around the corner. Speaking of which, I'm just about to send Ronjo the access codes for the computer.

Ronjo, did you get my email about burning downloadable footage? Perhaps I can send you some spins with the ivorine ball for the different diamond test. You will find it much easier with the other test dvd because the ivorine ball on the mk7 wheel has much smoother deceleration. The results are also better too. The focus of testing should be the different diamond tests, because that shows everyone what idiots especially forester and bago are. But I'm going to the post office today so can send you a DVD easily too, but it takes a bit longer, and I'm eager to see the stooges publish everything they can think of to divert from embarrassment.

As I said previously I'm also going to send you a newer computer, so you can more easily test accuracy of diamond hit predictions. You will see how accurately the computer determines which diamond will be hit. For the mk7 wheel, it can target diamonds. For the mk2 wheel, it can isolate to both diamond and part of diamond. I'll also send you an older dvd of predictions on the mk2 wheel where you plainly see this. If I published all this information, it would flatten the stooges, but there are more important things than embarrassing dickheads. I'll publish them publicly eventually though.

UPDATE:

1. Ronjo now has the unlock code and can start testing at his leisure.

2. Ronjo is also now in contact with one of my partners. He will be given the opportunity to speak with others too.

3. Some time this week I hope to send Ronjo a new video of the mk7 wheel with ivorine ball. I've actually done quite a few videos now, but feel a new one which specifically shows accuracy of diamond hit predictions would be best. More specifically, it will not only better demonstrate accuracy of diamond hit predictions, but this also reinforces the fact that predictions are anything but random. They are only random to clowns like Bago who wouldnt know his head from his anus - no offence Bago, love you lots xx

By the way Forester, where the ball strikes the rotor is one of many factors that contribute to where the ball will land. If that's all you look at, and it's obvious it is, you're only half way there. Your computer doesn't even predict where the ball will fall off correctly. I'm not going to tell you what's wrong with your computer, but I'll release a video of it predicting the mk7. I'm in no hurry as I dont really care.

Anyway there is actually a long way to do with the testing. We haven't even touched on the system yet, but one thing at a time.

Hi Steve,

Thank you I am all set now and ready tp play,I just need to get familiar with everything after a few practices In the next few days,yes Steve I got the e-mail about downloading the footage,but I think it would be better to send a DVD.

Best Regards,
Ronjo.

Take your time, we will be awaiting your observations/comments. :-)

No problem Ronjo.

On other matters, I really cant believe the stupidity of the stooges again:

1. Now they are attacking the fact that on my website (roulettecomputers.com), there is a photo of me and next to it I state it is one of our consultants. Yes, I am one of my company's consultants. Surprised? And if you've ever been to a public demo, you'd know either one of my partners or an assistant attends with me, in addition to one security staff. Over the years I have had many staff, partners, programmers, technicians, general assistants, associates who have worked in the gaming industry etc. So what? The stooges will jump on anything. Even Bago is raving on and on about my t-shirt in the photo. Woopie doo. Is this absolute desperation or what? Bago, if you'd like to know, I'm currently wearing black underwear. Oh my god, black.. it must mean I'm pure evil. to clear up any confusion, I added my name next to the photo on roulettecomputers.com - so Bago and Forester, it's time for you thick-heads to focus on something else. Perhaps see if you can determine when I last flossed my teeth, for if I haven't flossed in a while, I must be an evil scammer.

2. Kelly and Forester are looking at the scatter chart Bago published. While they agree there IS an advantage, they also acknowledge the edge in that particular scatter chart is weak - I've said that already, but the edge is still clear and so are the profits. But still let me remind you guys once again, Bago chose the worst possible video, and only half of it. Of course he chose the QUALIFICATION video, where the computer automatically adjusts predictions and of course takes some time to do that. But anyway like I already explained, very basic features are being used in that video, intentionally so players can see how tweaking the settings affects accuracy. I do this in almost all of the videos for numerous reasons, including that if the videos ever leak, no overly sensitive secrets are disclosed. If it's the video I'm thinking it is, also I used only 2 or 3 ball clicks. 2 or 3 ball clicks for a level wheel, when I could use up to 8 provided the ball spins fast enough? Come on guys, are you all that blind? Forester is not blind, he's just an ignorant moron who would love nothing more for everything he says to be true, or he'll look like a complete idiot, as he will when the truth come out fully. Same with you bago, and of course you mark. Very close now. You cant fight with truth, so you have to distort information, plain lie, and talk about t-shirts, carpet, tvs, blinds, a rental property and whatever.

Kelly, you dont have something to lose here, so if you want to get involved, I will send you one of the videos I'm sending Ronjo. It will show you diamond hits and near maximum accuracy, on a near level mk7 wheel - with a rather bouncy ivorine ball. Predictions will be more than early enough too. As for Forester and Bago, you guys are going to hang your heads down when you see the videos because the proof is undeniable and very clear - oh but hang on, you already ignore other videos, like the one on my site - so OF COURSE you are going to ignore any other videos, like an ostrich with its head in the sand. It is cowardly, and shows quite the lack of integrity because you put your ego before truth. If I was merely interested in SELLING my computer, I would show all proof, maximum effectiveness etc. Do you really expect me to show all my secrets? My friends, I dont intend on selling much longer despite the raised price. Most people that acquire my computer now get it for FREE because they become partners, but I am still very selective of who I partner with. But you clowns still call me a scammer - yes the big scammer giving away free roulette computers. Yes you dont want people to know instead of buying your rubbish, people can get my computer for free, and it's a hell of a lot more effective - just like I'll show in a video demonstrated your devices. Yes I just know you look forward to that.

Bago if you really want to know if I flossed my teeth, in all honesty, I'm not much of a flosser. I feel like it spreads my teeth, and it's an uncomfortable feeling in my mouth. But please, dont tell anyone. I'm afraid what it might do to my reputation. Honestly you guys are just complete idiots. I can't understand what is wrong with your heads. You will attack absolutely anything you can think of. But that wont detract from very simple truth which will be revealed soon enough. But you go right ahead continuing talking about t-shirts and whatever.

Now this one is hilarious, just had to say it: have a look at bago's site. Down the very bottom is a photo of the Lilydale property with an ironing board out front. Or see below:



This would have to be from forester, as he said there was an ironing board out front when he drove to this house. After he visited, he even made a statement on his site saying it was a cheapo ironing board, and I couldnt afford better. Hmm ok, so Forester actually flew down to Melbourne, visited the property and took a photo. So he sends it to bago to be published. Now I don't know about you guys, but here's what I think... WHAT A BUNCH OF ABSOLUTE TOSSERS... UNBELIEVABLE! Desperate enough to go to this property, take a photo, kneel down so an ironing board is in the shot, then publish it on the web. Many people have told me the mere desperation of these clowns reinforces the fact that my claims and technology is genuine. Really what they do is like what you'd expect from paparazzi in Woman's Day magazine! You are not only a bunch of scared little boys defending your honor, so desperate to be seen as "right", you are pretty much stalkers without a life of your own. By now you all well and truly know the truth, but you dont want to admit it because of how stupid you will look. Too damn bad for you. Grow up, and stop putting pride before truth. The fact that you COWARDS run from the truth shows you aren't men, you are children.

You know, I have photos of all three of the stooges (yes you too mark), where they live, and many more details. I dont publish them because I just got give a mess. Stooges, do you want me to take a photo of my curtains, my t-shirt collection, my TVs, what else do you have an interest in? There is no better word for you people than PATHETIC.

What on Earth has any of this got to do with roulette computers and systems? NOTHING. And why? Because you guys KNOW what is just around the corner and you are shitting your pants. You have to stick to rubbish like t-shirts and TVs because that's all you think you have. Like how mark says it's a small cheap TV, yes only a $6000 bravia, and I took a photo of another tv to show what idiots you are (at http://www.roulettewars.com/markhowe2.html). BUT WHO CARES ABOUT TVS? How about the cheap furniture mark speaks of. Yes the suede electric reclining chairs, cheapo stuff. BUT AGAIN WHO CARES? I even published the ad for the Lilydale property which is one of my rental properties (http://www.roulettecomputers.com/rent.jpg) - do you want statements from the real estate agent too?? BUT WHO CARES? What else do you want me to take a photo of? It wouldnt matter would it, because all you do is twist it around to make it look negative. When it comes to RELEVANT things, you do exactly the same thing - LIE AND MANIPULATE, because the truth sure doesn't serve your purpose does it? It is no different when it comes to things like TVs or whatever. In fact you lie about ANYTHING CONCEIVABLE - you all have your not so hidden agendas - to attack me by ANY means possible. When you find out one of my addresses, you exploit it like a bunch of paparazzi, and you cannot handle it is part of my wealth: http://www.roulettecomputers.com/rent.jpg - before all this, I had not mentioned one tiny bit of my wealth - it is not my intention to brag. Absolutely incredible how desperate you guys are.

Forester, the fact that you would even bother to visit that house is bad enough, but then you take a photo of it and send it to bago. Rubbish it was taken by a neighbor and that they tell you I walk the dog etc. You make a bluff statement like that in hopes it is true, just like mark does, but you fall flat on your face when it is wrong.

Anyway, am I going to respond showing where you live with your parents Bago? Am I going to publish your photo? Nah, I just dont care about that stuff. Really what you have done is just reinforce to everyone what absolute dickheads you and forester are. You have reinforced the fact that failing your attempt to stick to what is relevant (remember your embarrassing attempts with the scatter charts?), you will attack WHATEVER you can conceive of, including but not limited to t-shirts. Honestly when this is all over, you have made it even sweeter for me. And you, well you'll be stuck with nothing but photos of ironing boards that my tenant threw out.

Are these people stalking you or what?
Talk about creepy.

Boats, you dont know half of it. They are absolutely desperate. Mark is the worst though. The way things are going, I'll be able to pursue harassment cases against all three of them if I want.

Ronjo, I sent you a PM regarding the wheel timings. Also I did two new videos yesterday - one is with 3 dominant diamonds, and the other is with 4 dominant diamonds. The one with 4 dominant diamonds is probably better though because one of the dominant diamonds is a horizontal diamond - ie makes things harder. It's 150 spins for the second dvd, but the footage doesnt fit without compression, so I'm trying compression methods to get quality better etc. Bare with me when it comes to the videos really I'm absolutely flat out with various work.

UPDATE: Ronjo your DVD is ready. I'll send you two DVDs:

1. DVD 1: This is an older version of the computer being demonstrated on the mk2 wheel. You can test on it or do whatever you want. The main thing being demonstrated is how the computer can predict not only which diamond will be hit, but which part of the diamond (upper, mid or lower). In the video if I recall correctly, I set the computer to call "risk" when either the ball missed the reference diamond, or if the ball hit too far up the reference diamond. Either way, the video explains the settings being used. The newer software version will be sent on a different computer (extra computer I'm sending with the dvds) and how to determine which diamond will be hit etc will be simpler to do. There are many other versions of the software, but the latest version I'm sending is better for manually seeing what is going on for validation purposes.

2. DVD 2: This is a DVD of the mk7 wheel with ivorine ball. There are 4 dominant diamonds, which are 3 of the vertical diamonds (90 degrees apart which covers a 270 degree arc), and 1 horizontal diamonds which is hit quite frequently. This video is generally harder to get accurate predictions for which is why I chose it. Ronjo I'll send you detailed instructions on things like exactly how to set the computer for the different diamonds. Some versions will do it automatically, but these versions dont show the data you need to verify accuracy is simply not luck - it is very clear and unmistakable. When you see the data, it will be perfectly clear your positive results are due to an accurate computer. I couldnt get all 150 spins on the single dvd, so I just fit whatever I could - I think it's about 100 spins.

As for the different diamond test, you'll find it much easier with DVD 2 because of the ivorine ball etc, plus you have something like 100 spins to choose from.

Anyway so now it's just a matter of shipping it to you, and I'll let you know shipment tracking details.

Hi Steve,

Thank you I will be looking forward to recieving the new DVD'S and computer, and doing the work thats needed, still  trying to get famililar with the whole concept,but I am getting there, and things look very positve up to now.I have had a three hour chat with one of your players on Sunday, on "Skype" and the  conversation we had was very constructive.

Best Regards,
Ronjo.

Quoted from Ronjo

Hi Steve,

Thank you I will be looking forward to recieving the new DVD'S and computer, and doing the work thats needed, still  trying to get famililar with the whole concept,but I am getting there, and things look very positve up to now.I have had a three hour chat with one of your players on Sunday, on "Skype" and the  conversation we had was very constructive.

Best Regards,
Ronjo.

Hi Ronnie - you will remember me as "Hibernian". Hope you are well mate.

I have been watching this thread with interest for ages. For the record I just want to state for everyone's benefit that Ronjo is a genuine, trustworthy guy and he is definately not Steve !

No disrespect to anyone else who was going to be involved with this test, but Ronjo is definately the best person for the job.

At long last...."LET THE GAMES BEGIN" !     

P.S I wonder how our old friend John Ager is getting on ?!?!? LOL :-D

No problem Ronjo. Yes there is a lot of new information to learn, and often I take that for granted because it's second nature to me. Speaking of which, after I ship I'll have to write a lengthy email explaining some things about the computer's operation and the particular version I'm sending.

I'm definitely shipping today and will be in touch soon.

Ronjo your parcel is on its way. I've sent you an email with tracking information etc. The email also has a lot of information to digest. If you keep it simple and initially focus on the different diamond test, the lies from morons like forester and bago will be very clear, and you can report back on this when you have done enough testing to feel confident. From the start that part was the main focus because it refutes 90% of the lies.

The direct number hit rate is roughly 1 in 20 if you look at the sector of the wheel, not just individual pockets which can be a bar with 0 height, with something like a bar of 6 height next to it - areas are far more relevant. With the suggestions about accuracy in the email, you can achieve much better results but we'll perhaps get to that in time.

@ Everyone: I've also sent Ronjo statistical data pertaining to diamond hit predictions. The mk7 wheel has 4 dominant diamonds as previously explained. This includes 3 vertical diamonds (270 degree arc) and 1 horizontal diamond to shake things up a bit. The suggested settings I sent Ronjo give predictions about 6 seconds before the ball falls, but earlier is certainly possible. Again a bouncy ivorine ball is used, the plastic is removed from the pockets which increases bounce quite a bit, the wheel doesn't have something simple like a single dominant diamond etc etc etc. The point is the wheel is not easy to beat.

If you have a neutral viewpoint on all this testing, I have no doubt what Ronjo reports will validate my claims. The only people that will state otherwise are my 3 good friends, and we all know who they are.

Hi hibsboy.

Quoted Text

I have been watching this thread with interest for ages. For the record I just want to state for everyone's benefit that Ronjo is a genuine, trustworthy guy and he is definately not Steve !

I can Vouch for that as well Mate.

Quoted Text

No disrespect to anyone else who was going to be involved with this test, but Ronjo is definately the best person for the job.

No Offense taken My Friend.

I said that about Ronjo from day one Mate.

Lanky

If you want to get those guys off your back, there's two ways you could do it.

1. If you really want them to take you serious, explain the formula that you use to account for the deceleration of the ball on the ball track, and how you account for the rotor.

Everyone involved in computer ballistics will immediately recognize whether the formulas you use are viable.
These formulas are not trade secrets.  They are common knowledge among users.  Also, specify how many data points you enter to account for the ball deceleration.

2. Another option would be to test the results over about 1k spins to see if the predictions can perform close to three standard deviations or better.  If the not, then you could continue testing until the predicted sector of three or five rises above three standard deviations.  The min. sample test should be about 1k trials.

-Farnsworth3

Farnsworth:

1. What on Earth makes you think I give a damn what they think? They do take me seriously which is why they bust their balls trying to discredit me with every conceivable thing. I already know what they think: in addition to envy of my success and technology, including but not limited to the hybrid, they hate me because I've embarrassed them repeatedly with simple truth - I didn't need to attack them, just show the truth. They attack every conceivable thing about me out of spite. To them it is not about truth, it is about harming me by any means possible. You really shoudl read http://www.roulettewars.com in detail to understand the kind of people they are, and what they have done. But I couldn't care less about what they think anyway and said that from the start. This is about showing everyone the truth - they are liars and manipulators - they claim I'm the dishonest one. I want the truth known - plain and simple.

2. There is no chance in hell I'll give them algorithms for improving their devices. No, the equations and models are not common knowledge. The only common knowledge algorithms pertain to either perfectly level, or heavily tilted wheels - regardless, they have major problems, some of which are explained at the bottom of http://www.roulettecomputers.com/comparison.htm - what do you think they would do with such information if I gave it? Use it for themselves, then attack me further. You need to understand I've already shown very clear proof, numerous times. Did it change anything? No. Their motives are to attack me. The truth doesn't interest them.

3. When you say 1k spins: If you are referring to the computers, you do not need anywhere near 1k spins to establish irrefutable proof of effectiveness. If you are referring to the system, 1k spins is not enough - Ronjo needs to see working principles, which he will. We'll deal with the computer first as it's easier.

Farnsworth, I appreciate you may be trying to help, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

Quoted Text

Farnsworth, I appreciate you may be trying to help, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

Actually, I do.  As a humble shoe cobbler I have a great deal of experience with the mathematics involved and the formulas used to account for ball deceleration, etc.  I could look at your equipment, your formulas, the types and quality of the switches you're using and immediately tell you whether your system is good enough to win.  However, that's not good for my business to prove whether your computer works or not.



Regarding your feud with them, I was just trying to show you a faster way out.  Explain how you account for the ball decay, and they'll take you serious and the casino wil remain in doubt.  That's all.  
  
I look at it this way:   Casino personnel don't believe in you, because of what the others say.
All of the computer sellers look like buffoons thanks to Mike Barnett  and because of the in fighting.  In turn this is good for the business of playing these roulette wheels.  What would be bad for business would be if you actually demonstrated the effectiveness of your computer.

Either way, I don't want to get involved in that fued in any way.



Best regards,

Farnsworth3.

Why on Earth do you think I care about what casino personnel think about me? You have it all wrong Farnsworth. This is all about showing everyone the truth. It is not about competitor wars. I really don't consider those idiots "competitors" - the real competitors are the casinos, wheel developers and consultants like Barnett.

If I wanted to obliterate the "stooges" and people like Barnett who think they know it all, I would release everything. Yes that'd be FAST, But also the stupidist thing I could ever do, and merely to prove a point? I don't think so. You need to understand what my players achieve, covertly. And it will stay covert for as long as it can. My aim of this challenge is to show everyone the truth, without publicly revealing secrets that enable enormous covert winnings.

Barnett is a moron too but we don't affect each other. Until recently he thought a level wheel couldn't be predicted - he changed his mind to saying they can be predicted, but with little accuracy. He will change his mind again, when he knows better. Eventually he will acknowledge that even the most modern level wheels can be predicted, relatively easily, and with bets BEFORE ball release - without paying any attention dealers, ballistics, or wheel defects. He wont believe that until he sees it, I dont care. He hasn't the vaguest idea of my technology or techniques and it will stay that way. Forester is another who thinks he knows better. Incredible ignorance around but I don't care, and that is not the point. Forester knows I teach VB among other things, he says it alone is great, but then he calls me nasty names - again he is just not interested in truth, he just wants to attack.

Only my players know what my technology and systems can achieve. All players? No. Only the very trusted players are taught the full details. New players start out with the most basics of basics - the primordials. Do you really expect me to just reveal everything instantly? Not a chance with so few trustworthy people around. Trust must be earned. Yes players pay me, but if they can't be trusted, they won't be trusted with anything but the basics, and more "known" techniques which even them alone is more than sufficient for consistent winnings. As for the quite unknown methods and technology, it is only for trusted players and my private teams.

Anyway I dont care what you think you know, or what you may know. Let's keep my intentions clear:

To make the truth known. To make it abundantly clear to the roulette community who has been lying, and who has been honest all along - contrary to what malicious morons have said to harm or discredit me. I dont like lies about me. Can I make it any simpler?

Will it stop the lies? No, and we all know that. But what it will do is make the truth clear to people that know and trust Ronjo, which is quite a few. And people that trust ronjo are often also trusted themselves, and so on. so the truth will filter through the community, rather than have me branded as some "manipulative scammer" by people that have something to lose from my sincerity.

I'm sure the people that have actually met me, or dealt with me for some time would agree I am a sincere person. I care very much about the success of my players - I am a normal, decent, caring and honest person. Many of my players have become close friends, and many constantly offer to defend me. That would be another fast way to do things, but I request they stay out of it as it is a waste of time for them. It is not their "battle" as such. After everything is done with Ronjo, everyone can take or leave it - I'll be done with it all and wouldn't care further. Of course clowns like Bago will claim Ronjo is me, as they ALREADY have, but why do you think they do that? Again the truth just doesn't matter to them - they have other motives.

Whats the PP on this at the mo with respect to the system?

First we're doing the computer as it's simpler.

Any progress chaps ?

Ronjo just received the dvd with ivorine ball.

Ronjo, I just sent you an email with additional data. Again your focus should be the different diamond test. You should find it very easy to validate my claims about the 6 and 3 pocket arc. After that part is done, then we can look at the accuracy at which diamonds can be predicted and overall accuracy.

@ everyone: Ronjo can test for himself the accuracy of diamond hit predictions, for both the mk7 wheel and older mk2 wheel. As I said previously, on the mk7 wheel you can predict which diamond will be hit comfortably the majority of times (about 80% depending on tolerance settings), but with the mk2 wheel you can predict it even to the part of the diamond. Ronjo has a dvd showing predictions on parts of the diamonds, which will probably be released before the mk7 videos.

surely everyone knows roulette is a game of chance you can never prdict where the ball lands

Mattflan, are you sure about that? I think this is the wrong place for you. Either that or you have a lot of learning to do, not to offend you.

Quoted from mattflann

surely everyone knows roulette is a game of chance you can never prdict where the ball lands

Hi Steve,

Yes everything is in order and working,it wont be long and I can post some results from my findings.

@ Mattflann I have to agree with Steve, and is correct in saying that Roulette can be predicted, and that is why the casino's have to apply anti-measures with undisireable players or advantage players.

Regards,
Ronjo.

not offended i hope your right but have tried various roullete systems on line casinos which rarely work hope you can prove yours does

Matt, you are probably accustomed to things like red/black or other outside betting strategies, and systems designed for RNG online casinos. That's why you havent had any success.

I've got an open mind about this and am looking forward to seeing the results of the test.  It's not something that i've ever looked into or studied so am genuinely intrigued!  

If you look into or study it + a little bit of logic would= you not really being THAT surprised of the outcome to this. I have 100% faith this will be successful because if logically addresses all aspects of why and how.

I find it really, really funny that people find it so difficult to believe that physics (or other avenues of physics) if applied correctly can yield very near to accurate results with roulette. The obvious trick is finding that method(s). Not all the time because it would be a pain in the butt trying to figure out where it exactly lands all the time, but enough of the time to do as Steve mentions - beating the house edge and in-turn winning consistently.

Seriously, people need to start adding 1 and 1, for real.

Thats not directed at you Norman, just in general mate.

UPDATE: It won't be long now and I will have some good news by the beginning  of next week,I will keep you all updated just in case you think I have eloped.

Regards,
Ronjo.

We are on the edge of our seats. :-D

No problem Ronjo, thanks.

By the way, again you are being accused of being me by idiots like Forester. Bago made that claim first, but it was an obvious despereate claim they'd make. Only a few sheep on forester's forum believe him, but most importantly just about everyone else knows better. Plus there are other similarly well known and respected forum members that will vouch for your identity - this is exactly why you were a suitable candidate - reputable and well-known. I know my computer well, so I know what you will find assuming application is correct. On that note if you find my claims are inaccurate, let me know and it will be addressed. Again the main thing is the different diamond test and claims about 3 and 6 pocket arc.

I believe it is very clear both bago and forester know you are not me. But they aim to discredit you because it means discrediting me. I don't know what's wrong with forester's head but he makes stuff up in his head. One recent thing he said is that I have no partners where they get my computer for free - he says I only offer this (http://www.roulettecomputers.com/partners.html) as a desperate cry to get attention. Hmmm, but Ronjo you actually spoke to one of my partners for about an hour, and you can speak to many more upon request. Really I dont know how on Earth Forester can make such a ludicrous statement. He is either absolutely blind and ignorant, or a very calculating liar.

Anyhows, nevermind the accusations about you. We dont really care what forester's sheep believe - they are the minority. Perhaps soon enough they'll learn who's been lying to them.

There's a new "moron" attacking me. He claims to have bought my system and it's all a scam, that I'm evil etc etc, ie all the usual garbage. Below I've posted full details about this person and correspondence between us. This is a good example of how I develop "enemies" that want to harm me, and they try to do that by calling me nasty names like scammer even when they know it's not true. It's a lot of information but you can see how idiots like these give me the label "scammer":

The person is "Yous" on Forester's forum. See correspondence from him (Yous) below. Basically he completely flipped when I wasn't on skype the first time he tried, when he didn't even let me know he was logged on (despite clear instructions - I dont use skype unless asked, but he could have called via phone). He first attacked me on forester's forum (steve-hater forum) saying I was a scammer, that i had scammed him for $2500 and my system doesnt work, which is all nonsense. So I asked him what on earth he was on about. His excuse was he knows what he said is not true - he just wanted to get my attention. He said I may be a genius with my methods but he just wanted to get my attention. You dont just go out revealing who you are and attacking me just to get attention. OF COURSE forester professed this player's testimony of me as even more proof that I'm the scammer he claims - yes a solid testimony, just like Bago's. So he broke the contracts doing this, and I dont want morons on my team. He showed no trust at all, and the contracts exist to enforce trust which is important to maintain secrets (ip) - so I banned him. I didn't ban him from spite, but he behaved like bago so I dont want him near secrets - it is my moral and legal right to protect secrets my players rely on. Now he's on a crusade to discredit and harm me. Yes another person trying to tell everyone that advantage play is an evil scam... but only when I teach it (despite my methods being much better than traditional methods). Yous (Rana) is now saying rubbish like my methods "suck". He had the primordials document for about 2-3 weeks, which contains only an outline of what I can teach him, and some very basic ballistic methods even I advise not to use because they are very elemental. Rana had never spoken to me before and he sure never came close to anything but primordial methods.

Anyway, here's the correspondence. Another kid like Bago. It's people like this that have given me a bad reputation (red text is from Rana (Yous) and blue text is from me). Without t