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Just for laughter - John Ager System  This thread currently has 5,039 views. Print
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bobbybobby
January 9, 2008, 3:24pm Report to Moderator

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Posts: 161
wow.. i can't believe it.. John Ager is still at it.

amazing..

http://www.jagergamblingsystems.co.uk/roulette%20systems.html

and his BOOK is always "GOING TO BE PUBLISHED IN" " THE NEXT FEW MONTHS"  hahaha...


Note for newbies: DO NOT EVEN BUY IT!!!!!


BobbyBobby
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hibernian
January 9, 2008, 10:40pm Report to Moderator

Still in Diapers
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Hi bobbybobby,

I haven't posted in ages and have been adopting a watching brief. A question though - were you not a strong John Ager supporter a while back, claiming that you were winning (and winning well) with his systems ? (In fact, some people on here were alleging that you were either John Ager himself or in cahoots with him !)

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just interested to hear your experiences and why exactly your stance has changed on John Ager.  

Cheers,
H
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bobbybobby
January 9, 2008, 11:14pm Report to Moderator

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??  hi hibernian... me? John Ager?

I bought his system.  Won... yes, true.. but flatten out and was chasing losses like mad after one month of using his 4 corner bets and Infalliable System (hahaha) what a joke.

Bobby is Bobby. That's all.  I just found it amusing that his webpage is still there.

Victor, any comments on the corner bets?  your LW strategy could worth a fortune if you were to choose selling systems instead of sharing.  Salute to Victor  


Cheers,
BobbyBobby
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Steve
January 10, 2008, 6:00am Report to Moderator

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Posts: 2,668
The only "potentially" winning bets are bets based on areas of the wheel (real wheels only). You CANNOT win with dozens, splits, other outside bets etc. The only exception is when combinations of bets (splits etc) represent wheel sectors. Making the right "type" of bets is only a small piece of a much larger puzzle (how to beat roulette). There are only a handful of techniques that do beat roulette, some of which are roulette computers, bias analysis, visual ballistics, and a variety of other wheel pattern analysis techniques. ALL of them are based on wheel sectors.

If you want to beat roulette, don't try and reinvent the wheel. Most players will work on systems that CANNOT win, and they do so because they don't understand WHY their approach CANNOT work.

One thing to keep in mind is no matter what you bet, your payout is less than you would be paid if the odds were fair. So if you make a flat bet on a single number, and win, instead of getting back 37 units, you get back 35. That's not fair. So even when you win, you still actually lose. The only way to beat roulette in any event is to generate predictions that are accurate enough to overcome this house edge. And it's really not that hard when you know how. But an important thing to keep in mind is with an effective technique you can either:

1. Predict the correct sector for a positive edge
2. Predict the wrong sector for a negative edge (worse than accuracy of random bet selection)

What this means is you may start out beating the house edge, then as conditions change, you may end up with accuracy worse than random bet selection. The OVERALL effect is then that you really haven't achieved any edge. In other words, any truly effective technique is a double edged sword, and sustained correct application is essential. Again that's not difficult once you know what you''re doing, but it's just one of the pitfalls professional players encounter.
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VLSroulette
January 11, 2008, 1:10am Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Victor, any comments on the corner bets?

I remind a corner system in which you bet 4 corners in two adjacent columns (columns 1-2 or 2-3) with progression 112233..... is that one?

I tested it. Worked for me for a while, then had to drop it because it sunk big time in the subsequent days.

Maybe we should play new systems for 1 day only! Because most of them start working fine the very first day.

Quoted Text
Salute to Victor  


Hey bob.

I don't sell systems, never will. As a matter of fact I was talking to my dealer friend while we were in front of his PC, I logged to VLSforum and started showing the ATILA graphs and looking at the upwards direction of the charts he asked me: why in the world would I want to post strategies which could work in a public forum? He adviced me to keep everything to myself; but then, I shared some observations/tweaks to an strategy of him and he was so pleased we are going to the new casino in town this weekend to make a session together.

...sometimes I can't understand some people, they advice: Don't ever share Victor... ermm, but share with me. LoL

@steve

Hey mate, it is common belief at some spanish circles the dynamics of the "numerical groups" is the same no matter if you play from the layout or from the disk. For instance Toby makes money with a lines system. He noticed *ANY* division of 6 leads to the same dynamics, then he just made a lot of "virtual lines", including disk-based ones.

I know the disk is the "accepted reality", but timeline players see those observed recurrent numerical events as something real too!

Of course, I'm not telling you are wrong, not at all. But it is something curious how some people uses the numbers regardless of the position in the wheel, only according to the amount of them in the group.

When you know the way a numerical group "behaves" usually, they claim you can extrapolate to every other group of the same size, in the disk or in the layout, since the dozens/lines/streets in the layout are only one of the plenty of combinations which can be formed by permutation... talking about using gambler's fallacy in a practical way!!!




See you around guys.

Best regards for this 2008.
Your friend,
Victor
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bobbybobby
January 11, 2008, 1:40am Report to Moderator

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hi Victor, yes that was the one.  Tanked for me too. LOL.. big time..

and kudos to you for sharing, also to all the members here with all the great ideas.  



Good Day ahead!


BobbyBobby
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Steve
January 11, 2008, 1:07pm Report to Moderator

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If anyone has a system that wins with outside bets, and can prove it, I'll happily pay them US$50,000 for it. I have no doubt that it can't be done except in instances where combinations of outside bets represent sectors. Any system can win in the short term, and it gives the illusion of winning, but they eventually fall flat. You can even achieve good results over 50,000 spins, especially if you reverse engineer a system based on spins. But that's not going to work in real life. My offer is real for anyone who is interested. I've made similar offers previously and everyone who tried ended up trying to prove it ended up failing. My number is +613 9737 6422 if anyone wants to pursue.
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joker
January 11, 2008, 2:18pm Report to Moderator
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Posts: 211
So Mr. hoo-hoo you are saying that Mr. Victor's VLS systgem doesn't work?

well, Mr. Victor and Mr Lanky have been winning consitently....

so what do you think about this system?

thank you

joker
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Steve
January 11, 2008, 2:45pm Report to Moderator

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Joker: To be direct, yes. I don't mean to offend anyone and it should not be taken personally. Again any system can have sustained periods of profit for a while, but eventually they fall flat. I am sure continued testing would show this. I'm not at all saying it's not a good system, just that it would not overcome the house edge, and would not be a sustainable income source.
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Ronjo
January 11, 2008, 4:06pm Report to Moderator
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Posts: 243
Hi Steve,
I am sure no one will be offended, thats what this forum is about "DEBATE" and we must treat constructive criticism as a learning curb.I am no expert on roulette but I try my hardest to find the edge over this game,and I would like to add to Steves comments about outside table bets,I have played well over 50,000 spins of real play in the time I have played roulette using methods that only use the outside table layout and I have to admit I have had some incredible wins over hundreds of spins but I could only do this if I used progression as flat betting it would prove extremely difficult, and on top of that there were some scary downsides but with the  right mind set I saved myself from almost going bankrupt.I still play these methods of mine but only for short games and use a higher value chip and play for a 9-16 chip profit per game and for the day three games win or lose and thats it, I find thats the safest for me if I play the outside bets.Now about playing various systems using the wheel layout and there are a few that are being used,I have found in my play that I can flat bet with no progression and without the stress of playing outside bets I do extremely well and when I take a few loses I dont stress to much as I have confidence in the approach I use, although when flat betting we get paid out 35 instead of 37 so for example if i was using 12 numbers i will have to lose three times to be out of that bet thats 36 chips now if i win the next spin i will get back 24 chips but the casino has already taken 36 chips from me so I am short of 12 chips thats very unfair and this is what i was trying to explain to Ray in our debate but he refused to except that fact, the benifits playing this way are that the downsides are few and far between and most of the time I go home with my bank and somehow I manage to go away with some profit.So in my experience I would agree with Steve that approaches using the wheel layout has been the most successful for me,but there are players on this forum that like the two dozens,quads,splits,columns,streets using the table number layout and do well,but I doubt very much that they will win in the long haul without progression and the huge downsides, which is the casinos weapon this is when a player gets confused and makes the wrong choices when panic sets in I am sure most of you have experienced that, I have .
Ronjo.
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Ronjo
January 11, 2008, 4:30pm Report to Moderator
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Posts: 243
Could someone guide me in how to post RX bankroll graphs,and I can show examples of bankroll trends in the two different ways eg:wheel/table.I am sorry guys when it comes to computers I am useless I am old school,I would appreciate it very much if someone can help me.
Ronjo.
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clothdog
January 11, 2008, 11:50pm Report to Moderator

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HI Ronjo,
Did you get my email? Or did you change addresses? Thanks mate.
Clothdog
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VLSroulette
January 12, 2008, 12:44am Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
I don't mean to offend anyone and it should not be taken personally.


...and no offence should be taken. Everyone is in full freedom to play as one thinks better.

As for the way I and lanky suggest with the Lw strategy, it MUST fail mathematically, because no bankroll should be able to resist dispersion in the long run.

Also Atila's, Toby's and every other Layout/Progressional betting system MUST fail mathematically in the long run and that is the accepted thing by math and none of us can't change this. Steve is right.




Yet, Toby goes to the casino with his lines system and a long 24-steps progression, Lanky goes with two no-no's Layout-based betting + the 6-point plan which is progressive betting and me and Atila go and use progressions as our "cane" to compensate for our lower hit rate in the sessions (since we haven't beaten the house edge) and we all go hoping "we won't sink today". That's the truth.

But all in all, there are worse ways to play than like Lanky, Atila, Toby and myself; so we can keep on sharing for those who aren't into the "Advantage-play circle".

Best regards,
Victor
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Ronjo
January 12, 2008, 1:40am Report to Moderator
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Posts: 243
Hi Victor,
I dont know Atila and Toby as yet,but I know my old friend Lanky and yourself, and you both rank in with all the big contributors on this forum with your generousity and I salute you, you are both an asset to this crazy game we love.
Ronjo.
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joker
January 12, 2008, 2:10am Report to Moderator
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Posts: 211
Hello great forum members.. You people are just awesome

Thank you very much for your opinons...


Mr. hoo-hoo, so what do we need to do first? I mean what can I or should I start to learn to beat this game?

Do you have any suggestin what we can do to do well with this game?

if you could help us out with your great knowledge we are very much appreciated..

thank you so much..

Joker
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